paulw66 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 27 minutes ago, Morgs said: If we were bidding on Gallagher he would be an 80-90m player. As it is we are struggling to get 50m for him. Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 5 hours ago, Bison said: Replace entirely and sell Mudryk for whatever you can get. That would be an upgrade. This guy is beyond hopeless. The lad has talent! Imho, the big problem is being him being wildly inconsistent, going from real moments pf quality tp looking like the player you say he is. A further reason why I still think he can make it here is taking into account how inexperienced he is at this level for a player of his age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patThenevin Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I mean there are some that are partial to the Columbian in finance but....an £18m signing, who's made naff all impression....don't worry dumb and dumber have todds middle eastern cheque book out and want to sign him for £40m+ ....oh and we might end up selling Conor for a similar fee, clever Trevor for half that.... Launderette anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lump Of Celery Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 58 minutes ago, patThenevin said: I mean there are some that are partial to the Columbian in finance but....an £18m signing, who's made naff all impression....don't worry dumb and dumber have todds middle eastern cheque book out and want to sign him for £40m+ ....oh and we might end up selling Conor for a similar fee, clever Trevor for half that.... Launderette anyone? I did think the rumoured fee is a bit punchy too, you would have thought they would be happy to get their money back on him tbh. I guess we should be asking a similar fee for Broja then... 4 hours ago, chara said: Sometimes, I think, it seems possible to watch a player and feel "leaving vibes" for whatever reason,,,never got that feeling watching Conor all season through various Media proclamations at almost predictable intervals. I haven't got leaving vibes either. If they are trying to flog him I think/hope he might actually turn it down and force the new contract. The silence from either side briefing the media on any developments is deafening too, I reckon he signs on in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 I know it's a typo but it's still a microcosm of a typical transfer story on Twitter 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box of Tricks Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 25 minutes ago, Ham said: I know it's a typo but it's still a microcosm of a typical transfer story on Twitter Reminds me of that time on Twitter when Didier Drogba caught and recovered from malaria in eleven minutes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 7 hours ago, Morgs said: If we were bidding on Gallagher he would be an 80-90m player. As it is we are struggling to get 50m for him. Agree. I doubt the club will be able to get £30m for him. All PL teams are going to be more cautious on spending because of FFP implications and the length of his current contract. He costs nothing in 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 6 hours ago, boratsbrother said: The lad has talent! Imho, the big problem is being him being wildly inconsistent, going from real moments pf quality tp looking like the player you say he is. A further reason why I still think he can make it here is taking into account how inexperienced he is at this level for a player of his age. He had 18 months to prove himself. Edited June 13 by ROTG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said: I did think the rumoured fee is a bit punchy too, you would have thought they would be happy to get their money back on him tbh. I guess we should be asking a similar fee for Broja then... Wouldn't be surprised if they're doing a little creative accounting to inflate the books a little. You look at the proposed deal happening for Douglas Luiz to Juve right now, cash and two players (Iling Junior and McKennie). If you put the value of the package together it's as if Villa are asking for around £60-70 million, maybe even a bit more depending on how much stock one puts in the value of the two included in the swap. The other thing is that the striker market is dire across the board. Any bit of potential talent or a solid prior season is going to see clubs probably overvalue their player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago97 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 5 hours ago, ROTG said: He had 18 months to prove himself. I don’t see that he has. Like most clubs these days, Villa play with one striker and Watkins has been one of the most prolific strikers in England for the last 18 months. Now Chelsea of old would have been trying to buy Watkins, who is clearly the better striker right now. The only reason many PL fans don’t really know much about Duran (other than Villa) is because of the form of Watkins and Villa on the whole. I mentioned a mate of mine who is a Villa fan. He said Duran is as likely to crash and burn here as he is to win Ballon D’or in the near future. The potential is there for sure, it’s just how we as the club, but more importantly how he harnesses that ability and delivers of his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Thiago97 said: I don’t see that he has. Like most clubs these days, Villa play with one striker and Watkins has been one of the most prolific strikers in England for the last 18 months. Now Chelsea of old would have been trying to buy Watkins, who is clearly the better striker right now. The only reason many PL fans don’t really know much about Duran (other than Villa) is because of the form of Watkins and Villa on the whole. I mentioned a mate of mine who is a Villa fan. He said Duran is as likely to crash and burn here as he is to win Ballon D’or in the near future. The potential is there for sure, it’s just how we as the club, but more importantly how he harnesses that ability and delivers of his potential. Bit of cross wires here I was commenting on Mudryk As for the Duran one hopes its lazy media writing, with media's attention for the few weeks is focused on how the national teams fair in Euro's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago97 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, ROTG said: Bit of cross wires here I was commenting on Mudryk As for the Duran one hopes its lazy media writing, with media's attention for the few weeks is focused on how the national teams fair in Euro's My bad. Apologies, I thought it was Duran being referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mora Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 On 12/06/2024 at 10:45, paulw66 said: Wasn't sure where to put this, but I saw a conspiracy theory of sorts on Twitter..........can 2 clubs falsely inflate transfer values, to get over FFP (in the short term)? Example. Club A wants to sell a player X to Club B and Club B wants to sell a player Y to Club A. Let's also, to make it less complicated that both players are academy players, or were signed on free transfers (eg they are being sold for pure accounting profit) Both clubs agree privately that X is worth 30m, and Y is worth 20m. Both clubs have a financial shortfall that needs correcting by 30 June. Acknowledging there is 10m differential in their values, it could be in their respective interests that X is bought/sold for 60m, and Y is bought/sold 50m Club A get +60m in this financial year. they then have a 50m transfer outgoing, that they can spread over 5 years. Club B get +50m in this financial year. they then have a 60m transfer outgoing, that they can spread over 5 years. I have taken a fairly extreme example, where I have falsely boosted their values by 30m and I am sure it would raise a red flag, but imagine it was an extra 10m or 15m? How do you prove a true value? A player is worth what another club is willing to pay. You mean exactly what Juve and Barca did in the Pjanic/Arthur swap and got in trouble for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 3 hours ago, Thiago97 said: I don’t see that he has. Like most clubs these days, Villa play with one striker and Watkins has been one of the most prolific strikers in England for the last 18 months. Now Chelsea of old would have been trying to buy Watkins, who is clearly the better striker right now. The only reason many PL fans don’t really know much about Duran (other than Villa) is because of the form of Watkins and Villa on the whole. I mentioned a mate of mine who is a Villa fan. He said Duran is as likely to crash and burn here as he is to win Ballon D’or in the near future. The potential is there for sure, it’s just how we as the club, but more importantly how he harnesses that ability and delivers of his potential. Nobody is saying we shouldn’t buy Duran as he is clearly a talented player. What fans are baulking at the fact that we are adding yet more young players and not the game-changers that you allude to. So ironic that we supposedly model ourselves on Arsenal, yet who were the players who were critical to them making the step up to challenging for the title? Particularly Zinchenko and Gabriel Jesus, more recently Trossard and Declan Rice. Premier League proven quality to add to their young talents and help them reach the highest level possible. Arsenal realised the need to win now in order to maximise returns on their young talent. Yet we think we can just continually add young players and hope that our previous signings will just magically morph into the real deal without experience around them and without being at a winning club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 19 minutes ago, mora said: You mean exactly what Juve and Barca did in the Pjanic/Arthur swap and got in trouble for? Is that what happened? I can see clubs getting in trouble when the numbers are massively over inflated, but if it's 10-15m, I think it would be difficult to prove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Nobody is saying we shouldn’t buy Duran as he is clearly a talented player. What fans are baulking at the fact that we are adding yet more young players and not the game-changers that you allude to. So ironic that we supposedly model ourselves on Arsenal, yet who were the players who were critical to them making the step up to challenging for the title? Particularly Zinchenko and Gabriel Jesus, more recently Trossard and Declan Rice. Premier League proven quality to add to their young talents and help them reach the highest level possible. Arsenal realised the need to win now in order to maximise returns on their young talent. Yet we think we can just continually add young players and hope that our previous signings will just magically morph into the real deal without experience around them and without being at a winning club. they signed Zinchenko, we signed Cucurella They signed Rice, we signed Caicedo They signed Trossard, we signed Sterling We also signed Fofana, Lavia, and Palmer all of whom had some PL experience, just in two of those cases, they have been injured, which is a different point. We have signed plenty of young players, and a lot of them have had PL experience. The main difference is Arteta is now coming into his 5th full season, and their "project" is further down the line. Ignoring his first season, when he took over in December, he has since finished 8th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd......... We just finished 6th, 3 points off 5th, so on a like for like basis, one could argue we're not that far away. Let's see how this season goes. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 41 minutes ago, paulw66 said: they signed Zinchenko, we signed Cucurella They signed Rice, we signed Caicedo They signed Trossard, we signed Sterling Come on Paul - you can do better than this. I love how you casually ignored 4 times Premier League winner Jesus and compared 4 times PL winner Zinchenko to Cucurella. 😂 Rice is 3 years older than Caicedo, Paul - I absolutely love Moi but we signed him after 1 season at Brighton. The only point you have is with Sterling but we ironically would never have signed him in any of the windows after the first one... where we sacked Tuchel 6 games later. @Bob Singleton and @Mark Kelly - I trust you will be removing your agreement for Paul's post 🫡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Come on Paul - you can do better than this. Don't be so patronising. 23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I love how you casually ignored 4 times Premier League winner Jesus and compared 4 times PL winner Zinchenko to Cucurella. 😂 Ok , we signed PEA, they signed Jesus. I didn't compare Zinchenko and Cucurella as players. I was simply stating that both players have / had PL experience. Not the same, but they both have some. Zinchenko also ended up out of the Arsenal side, and the fans want rid of him too, but that's a separate discussion. 23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Rice is 3 years older than Caicedo, Paul - I absolutely love Moi but we signed him after 1 season at Brighton. Your argument was about signing players with PL experience. Yes Caicedo has less, but it isn't zero. 23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: @Bob Singleton and @Mark Kelly - I trust you will be removing your agreement for Paul's post 🫡 Telling people what to think. I expect you're 18-25, and a leftie? Am I right? Edited June 13 by paulw66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Singleton Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 15 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: [SNIP] @Bob Singleton and @Mark Kelly - I trust you will be removing your agreement for Paul's post 🫡 I won't be as I tend to agree with what Paul said and generally disagree with what you said in that particular exchange of posts. To be honest, I pretty much disagree with everything you ever say. I can't remember the last time I agreed with anything you've said. I also find you - on a personal level - a thoroughly disagreeable person, which doesn't help when it comes to trying to be objective about your views. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) 19 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Ok , we signed PEA, they signed Jesus. I didn't compare Zinchenko and Cucurella as players. I was simply stating that both players have / had PL experience. Not the same, but they both have some. Zinchenko also ended up out of the Arsenal side, and the fans want rid of him too, but that's a separate discussion. Your argument was about signing players with PL experience. Yes Caicedo has less, but it isn't zero. PEA was at the absolute tail end of his career, Paul. G. Jesus was in his prime. Zinchenko may be out of the side now but at the time he was a vital part of helping them make the step up. You may have misunderstood my point. I don't count the likes of Palmer who had made one Premier League appearance before joining us as "PL-proven", nor do I count the likes of Caicedo who had one season (although that's more like it). Olise is also more like it but still young. Julian Alvarez would be a statement signing and exactly the kind of top level, PL-proven player we should be after. But we won't - because we are obsessed with the next-best-thing-next door Jhon Duran who is going to learn from... Nicolas Jackson? 🫠 🔫 Edited June 13 by Max Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 50 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Come on Paul - you can do better than this. I love how you casually ignored 4 times Premier League winner Jesus and compared 4 times PL winner Zinchenko to Cucurella. 😂 Rice is 3 years older than Caicedo, Paul - I absolutely love Moi but we signed him after 1 season at Brighton. The only point you have is with Sterling but we ironically would never have signed him in any of the windows after the first one... where we sacked Tuchel 6 games later. @Bob Singleton and @Mark Kelly - I trust you will be removing your agreement for Paul's post 🫡 You trust wrong. And once again, Jesus has never scored more than fourteen goals in the Premier league season. His reputation out strips the reality and I think Zinchenko is bang average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Dion Rankine joins Wigan on a permanent deal. Good luck to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 25 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: You trust wrong. And once again, Jesus has never scored more than fourteen goals in the Premier league season. His reputation out strips the reality and I think Zinchenko is bang average. You just don't seem to have an understanding of the need for experience in football Mark. In every other industry I feel you would recognise it. Professionals who have been there, done it and can lead the younger bucks. This is not about stats - it's about leadership qualities. But because it's Chelsea you just stick your head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 21 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: You just don't seem to have an understanding of the need for experience in football Mark. In every other industry I feel you would recognise it. Professionals who have been there, done it and can lead the younger bucks. This is not about stats - it's about leadership qualities. But because it's Chelsea you just stick your head in the sand. Excellent let's get a non scoring forward and a dreadful left back because they've experienced. Sounds like a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 An illustration of why I don't usually bother with the Transfer Topic during the window. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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