Transfer Talk Topic

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

I would feel more positive about the owners bending the rules if it felt like it was being done to help the team on the pitch.

Instead it will free up more money to spend on 18 year old appreciating investments for their pocket.

For people more worried about their pockets they're going about it in a very unusual way throwing money around like drunken sailors on shore leave . They literally cannot have made a bean out of Chelsea as of yet and have committed billions .

[McCreadie]

I would be pretty comfortable with signing no-one to be honest, except another body at 9. The “mid table dolly mixtures” proved to actually be top six dolly mixtures. I imagine with another season of PL experience and some good coaching and application they could become top 4 dolly mixtures, at which point we might buy a couple of key players (attracted by CL) and could even become title challenging dolly mixtures. 

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

I would be pretty comfortable with signing no-one to be honest, except another body at 9. The “mid table dolly mixtures” proved to actually be top six dolly mixtures. I imagine with another season of PL experience and some good coaching and application they could become top 4 dolly mixtures, at which point we might buy a couple of key players (attracted by CL) and could even become title challenging dolly mixtures. 

I look forward to you coming back next season and admitting you were wrong when the owners don’t sign key players and instead pile more money into youngsters

[Max Fowler]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

For people more worried about their pockets they're going about it in a very unusual way throwing money around like drunken sailors on shore leave . They literally cannot have made a bean out of Chelsea as of yet and have committed billions .

Contradictory arguments are being made in different moments to suit one cause -excusing the owners. When we dare to criticise, we need to be patient and wait for years, yet when I point out where this model is leading us to and leading the owners to - the argument is made -

Where is the money the owners have made NOW?

it should be obvious that a double standard is being applied here. We need to be incredibly patient about success on the pitch, but if we can’t see the owners grabbing a fast buck right here, right now, then it can’t possibly be happening right? 

Just look where the model is taking us. It’s not about patience, it’s not about lack of patience. Look at the model. Look at the financial incentives. Ask why they are building the club in this way. 

Someone argued earlier that the owners won’t be growing the value of the club without absolute success, but of course they will. The players are the most valuable assets at the club. If the players all have the potential to retain or appreciate their value, and wage costs stay low, the value of the club increases, and the finances look all the more healthy for future investors.

But as people keep ignoring my points about the financial incentives around the club, let’s just gloss over that one like the rest. 

[Ham]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

 

The money spent in the opening windows hinged on the fact that the deal we had in taking over the club insisted that they spent 1.75 billion on upgrading the squad.

There is now a clear change of policy also, since Bedad took more control where we are doubling and tripling down on buying young players on the cheap. We will not buy enzo’s or caicedo’s any time soon. And why would they want to come? Why would Olise want to come? Instead we profit off cheaper and younger assets.

 

 

Firstly, they did not commit to spending £1.75m on the squad.  That was for infrastructure too.

Secondly, how can you whine about the owners not spending money whilst mentioning Enzo and Caicedo in the same breath? 

We can't buy a squad full of £100m players. It's got nothing to do with Behdad.  

47 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

The other point on the Kellyman, Maatsen deals is that they are clearly being used by both clubs to get around FFP. Inflate the price for both players so Villa and Chels escape FFP ramifications.

Yes there is something fun about our owners taking the rules for mugs but frankly they are taking all of us for mugs too.

 

We aren't the only clubs doing it. Newcastle and Villa have put through similar deals today. Others will too 

Don't blame the owners, blame the PL. 

 

 

 

*Bold and underlining because I know you like that.

Edited June 22 by Ham

[Mark Kelly]

25 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I look forward to you coming back next season and admitting you were wrong when the owners don’t sign key players and instead pile more money into youngsters

And  that's exactly what he didn't say. 

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, Ham said:

Firstly, they did not commit to spending £1.75m on the squad.  That was for infrastructure too.

Secondly, how can you whine about the owners not spending money whilst mentioning Enzo and Caicedo in the same breath? 

We can't buy a squad full of £100m players. It's got nothing to do with Behdad.  

Yes, but Ham, they committed to spending all that money on the squad and infrastructure, and they have done. They’ve spent a huge chunk of that required money, and now the strategy has clearly changed.

We are not going to be going after players in that price bracket. Frankly, Olise has been another exercise in dishing out PR.

If you cannot see that we are now single-handedly buying talented 17–year-olds from South America and 20-40 million pound academy products, that’s your prerogative. It’s clearly happening before our eyes, and yet some on here will say we have to wait till the transfer window shuts.

Proper players are briefed by the club as PR to excite the fan base, as does signing the next 17-year-old Brazilian. But there is absolutely no chance we repeat the Enzo and Caicedo signings or get anywhere near close to that, let alone, dare I say it buy someone more experienced.

It is quite shocking to see the levels of self deception to excuse how we are not improving our squad and apparently don’t even need to improve our squad. I guess some of us just have different standards for Chelsea should be in the league.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Yes, but Ham, they committed to spending all that money on the squad and infrastructure, and they have done. They’ve spent a huge chunk of that required money, and now the strategy has clearly changed.

We are not going to be going after players in that price bracket. Frankly, Olise has been another exercise in dishing out PR.

If you cannot see that we are now single-handedly buying talented 17–year-olds from South America and 20-40 million pound academy products, that’s your prerogative. It’s clearly happening before our eyes, and yet some on here will say we have to wait till the transfer window shuts.

Proper players are briefed by the club as PR to excite the fan base, as does signing the next 17-year-old Brazilian. But there is absolutely no chance we repeat the Enzo and Caicedo signings or get anywhere near close to that, let alone, dare I say it buy someone more experienced.

It is quite shocking to see the levels of self deception to excuse how we are not improving our squad and apparently don’t even need to improve our squad. I guess some of us just have different standards for Chelsea should be in the league.

How many players do we need in a first team squad? 

How many players are out there that 

A would immediately move the needle and 

B commit to a season outside the Champions league and 

C accept lower wages than they can get elsewhere 

Name them. 

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

How many players do we need in a first team squad? 

How many players are out there that 

A would immediately move the needle and 

B commit to a season outside the Champions league and 

C accept lower wages than they can get elsewhere 

Name them. 

Why are you agreeing with our self-imposed 150k salary cap Mark? in general, good players want to be paid more than that. 

[Max Fowler]

It’s actually patently obvious what the model is now. We’ve undergone a huge investment in young players that cost a lot of money that are seen as capable of carrying the club forward over the next five or so years at least. This was a one-time investment, partly because it was required by the terms of the deal, but also because it sets of the model for years to come.

In the meantime we buy 17-20 -year-olds with the aim of growing them into first-team players, so once that five or so years is up, we have a fresh crop of youngsters to grace the first team. Rinse & Repeat the model. This will never ever win us any trophies.

[thevelourfog]

32 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I look forward to you coming back next season and admitting you were wrong ...

Why are you so rude? What exactly is it that you get out of it? I gave you the benefit of the doubt in responding to you earlier and the first line was similar snide condescension. Can you please just disagree with people without doing this, it's really dull.

You have a strong view on what these owners are attempting to do. That's fine, and time may prove you right. But it is irrefutable that the facts as they are currently do not support your position. On my part I think we should be worrying about the complete opposite of what you say. I think we're committing ourselves to huge losses for many years to come by paying over the odds for players who no one will ever rate or value more highly than we currently do. The Brighton/Leipzig models are entirely predicated on spending far, far less money than we do, not to mention being able to sell to us! 

 

[Ham]

Max.  

It's PSR. Not a new strategy.  

You also answered your own question. The big investment has already been done.  A HUGE investment actually. 

Just tweaks from now on. 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Why are you so rude? What exactly is it that you get out of it? I gave you the benefit of the doubt in responding to you earlier and the first line was similar snide condescension. Can you please just disagree with people without doing this, it's really dull.

You have a strong view on what these owners are attempting to do. That's fine, and time may prove you right. But it is irrefutable that the facts as they are currently do not support your position. On my part I think we should be worrying about the complete opposite of what you say. I think we're committing ourselves to huge losses for many years to come by paying over the odds for players who no one will ever rate or value more highly than we currently do. The Brighton/Leipzig models are entirely predicated on spending far, far less money than we do, not to mention being able to sell to us! 

 

You may find it rude - really I’m just being a bit cheeky here. I will apologise if ever I go over the line but this was not an example of that.

Neither Brighton or Leipzig had a requirements to commit so much money to the club. Neither Brighton, nor Leipzig had to undergo such a massive transformation as we did.

See my points above about why we undertook a massive one time investment on building the current team with the model of topping up with 17 to 20-year-olds who will continue to grow into the next generations of our team, rather than buying new ready-made signings, that will actually improve the current starting lineup. 

[Max Fowler]

3 minutes ago, Ham said:

Max.  

It's PSR. Not a new strategy.  

You also answered your own question. The big investment has already been done.  A HUGE investment actually. 

Just tweaks from now on. 

The club already knew about the PSR implications. And this idea as ridiculous as we are about to spend another 70 million on Estevao and R Kelly from Villa.

Yes, we are more limited now but the club is also making decisions to spend money on 17 and 20-year-olds instead of proper ready-made players. They could easily spend that 70 million differently.

As you will see and as this transfer window progresses, I will be proved right that we continue to spend money on a bunch of 17-20 year olds when we could spend the money on someone more experienced.

But it sounds like we are in agreement about large parts of the strategy 🙂

[Ham]

You make yourself look silly and arrogant when you keep using the "Needless to say I had the last laugh" approach on everything.  

 

[McCreadie]

15 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 In the meantime we buy 17-20 -year-olds with the aim of growing them into first-team players, so once that five or so years is up, we have a fresh crop of youngsters to grace the first team. Rinse & Repeat the model. This will never ever win us any trophies.

Aside from all the other arguments, that fresh crop of youngsters will be joining a battle hardened bunch of 27 year olds in 5 years time and we won’t need to buy Kieran Trippier and Lewis Dunk. So why will it never win us any trophies?

(btw you do remember these players missed a trophy by a whisker this year?)

[Mark Kelly]

25 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Why are you agreeing with our self-imposed 150k salary cap Mark? in general, good players want to be paid more than that. 

Because I have no control over what we self impose. Would you prefer season tickets went up 50% instead of 5%?  To, you know, compete? 

I wonder what Twitter would say then? 

Not much I expect as 99% of the imbeciles posting on it couldn't find Stamford Bridge if you dropped them off with a map at Fulham Broadway. 

You do understand that a team like Arsenal earns over £1m more per home game than us because they have a bigger stadium.?

We have to be self sustainable and we never were under Roman. 

They are playing the long game. 

 

[Max Fowler]

41 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

Aside from all the other arguments, that fresh crop of youngsters will be joining a battle hardened bunch of 27 year olds in 5 years time and we won’t need to buy Kieran Trippier and Lewis Dunk. So why will it never win us any trophies?

(btw you do remember these players missed a trophy by a whisker this year?)

We missed a trophy having had the easiest draw in history, then sacked the manager who is capable of getting us there.

I’m not interested, winning Mickey Mouse cups. Neither am I interested in signing Trippier or Dunk. I am interested in signing proper players who have done it at the top of the league.

[Original 21]

[Max Fowler]

37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

. You do understand that a team like Arsenal earns over £1m more per home game than us because they have a bigger stadium.?

We have to be self sustainable and we never were under Roman. 

They are playing the long game. 

Well, at least you admit where we are Mark. We had the ninth biggest stadium in the league last season, so where do we expect to finish next season?

I agree that we have a long game model in place, but it’s not going to get us any serious success, and the incentives are misaligned.

So if you’re admitting that, we are no longer one of the biggest clubs in the league, I’m happy with that - at least you’re honest.

I would’ve personally rather taken the Qatari money than this.

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Well, at least you admit where we are Mark. We had the ninth biggest stadium in the league last season, so where do we expect to finish next season?

I agree that we have a long game model in place, but it’s not going to get us any serious success, and the incentives are misaligned.

So if you’re admitting that, we are no longer one of the biggest clubs in the league, I’m happy with that - at least you’re honest.

I would’ve personally rather taken the Qatari money than this.

I never thought we were big 

We were successful. 

And that's all that actually matters. 

Spurs and Arsenal can be as big as Billy big bollocks as far as I care. 

Their successes pale against ours in the Premier league years. 

[Max Fowler]

If everyone in favour of this project, just admitted what Mark effectively hinted at, which is that we won’t get anywhere until we build a new stadium which is going to take the best part of a decade anyway, and in the meantime, we’re gonna need to build out a squad over years and build out this model and so we may not expect to win the league for another 20 years or so so we and we just need to be patient in the meantime, then I will be okay with that.

It’s the idea that we’re going to somehow win the league in the next five seasons or so that is so baffling. This model isn’t getting us anywhere near that in the short term.

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Well, at least you admit where we are Mark. We had the ninth biggest stadium in the league last season, so where do we expect to finish next season?

I agree that we have a long game model in place, but it’s not going to get us any serious success, and the incentives are misaligned.

So if you’re admitting that, we are no longer one of the biggest clubs in the league, I’m happy with that - at least you’re honest.

I would’ve personally rather taken the Qatari money than this.

Look, I know that what we have done is a gamble in some ways and yes - we’ve made a few shockingly overpriced signings such as Enzo and Mudryk.

However, having taken stock since Poch left, we also have some very, very good young players. Palmer of course, Madueke, Gusto and Carney also look good. Cucurella, Caicedo and Jackson have improved. Tosin looks a smart signing; 26-years old with PL experience. Just what you’re looking for, no?

For me the priority is keeping Conor, and signing a goalie and a striker. I still have reservations about fight and mentality but Maresca may well improve that. 

We are where we are, Max. We may still sign more experienced players.

But too much money has been spent to see the fundamental changes you want, I’m afraid. 👀🫡🩶

[Max Fowler]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I never thought we were big 

We were successful. 

And that's all that actually matters. 

Spurs and Arsenal can be as big as Billy big bollocks as far as I care. 

Their successes pale against ours in the Premier league years. 

Well I’m surprised how well you’re gonna take our failures for the next 20 or so years Mark. At least your implications about where we are now seem to be in touch with the reality of just how far we have fallen.

Personally, I think they could’ve built on the success of the Roman era instead of destroying it and starting from scratch, but we are where we are

Edited June 22 by Max Fowler

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Look, I know that what we have done is a gamble in some ways and yes - we’ve made a few shockingly overpriced signings such as Enzo and Mudryk.

However, having taken stock since Poch left, we also have some very, very good young players. Palmer of course, Madueke, Gusto and Carney also look good. Cucurella, Caicedo and Jackson have improved. Tosin looks a smart signing; 26-years old with PL experience. Just what you’re looking for, no?

For me the priority is keeping Conor, and signing a goalie and a striker. I still have reservations about fight and mentality but Maresca may well improve that. 

We are where we are, Max. We may still sign more experienced players.

But too much money has been spent to see the fundamental changes you want, I’m afraid. 👀🫡🩶

The club clearly has an eye for good young players, Matt. There’s just a very hard limit to where that can take us, and bad incentives to the strategy as a whole.

Tosin is not really what I’m after, no. He may be a good signing on a free, but I want players that clearly improve the squad. He is not that.

You say you want a goalie and a striker. I would love to see you say you want a goalie and a striker who are actually proven and not 20 years old.

We will not be signing more experienced players - end of brother!