Transfer Talk Topic

[xceleryx]

10 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

As I understand it Mount just missed the boat when the owners decided to introduce their policy of changing the structure of contracts. Consequently he would end up earning much less than his fellow Cobham chum Reece James who had already penned a contract extension. I can see how he would be miffed as he is already on a stupidly low salary given his previous two seasons. The trouble is the owners are looking at this entirely objectively. They only see a player who has under performed this year and whom they are being told will get them a lot of money if sold. If he does leave the club he will fall into the exclusive group, along with KdB and Salah, that will be used as a stick to beat us with by the media and opposing fans for the next ten years.

Of course the alternative view, that certainly has some validity, is that one of the most heinous criticisms that has been leveled at the club this year is that the squad has lost its identity. Players like Mount, who have progressed through the system offer a way to regain that identity if we build around them. The owners have put us in the position where we are at risk of falling foul of FFP without anything tangible to show for it and now look to be in the process of stripping one of the few remaining vestiges of that identity in order to rectify the problem they themselves caused.

Mount was also paid beyond his value when he returned from loan and penned the £80k pw deal he's still on before even kicking a competitive ball for us. He went on to out perform that contract over the next two years, but he also had the ability after the CL win (IIRC) to extend and be compensated quite well in return. He gambled and appears to have lost, given the events that followed  with the ownership change and the wage restructure that was always on the horizon. 

It's not really fault of ownership (as far as we're aware yet) as to why Mount's situation is what it is. This was a budding issue before they arrived, that's now grown to what it is now with no agreement reached. Either way, Mount's future remains the same irrespective of the clubs spending this season. It's either extend or be sold. The club cannot consciously let an assist of Mount's age and skill level just walk for nothing, FFP issues or not. The in between option was the rumoured 1 year extension, but that's also been turned down by all accounts. 

While it would be nice to retain those who come up through the system and showcase that they're good enough for this level, these players also need to show that they want to be part of that vision. 

[Blue Moon]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

The way this season is going we're likely to swap Mount for Maguire's mum . 

Fixed it for you

[Sciatika]

There is a possibility that Maguire's mum is better than Maguire.

[Blue Moon]

Distinct possibility ... and his gran is a bit of player, I understand ....

[chrisb]

1 hour ago, Blue Moon said:

Distinct possibility ... and his gran is a bit of player, I understand ....

I think Wayne Rooney can confirm that…

[Blue Moon]

18 minutes ago, chrisb said:

I think Wayne Rooney can confirm that…

Oh, Matron!

[east lower]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

While it would be nice to retain those who come up through the system and showcase that they're good enough for this level, these players also need to show that they want to be part of that vision. 

And there’s the rub, Mount has been nowhere near the worth of RJ for well over a season. 

Clearly the club are trying to get him to sign a new contract - if people believe Lampard’s comments. 

If Mount thinks he worth the same or more, then sayonara old son and see how you fare elsewhere - nice having you at the club but it seems that your ego and wallet are the more important factors to you than our fans and loyalty. Don’t hit your backside on the way out. 

 

 

[Rob B]

13 hours ago, Bert19 said:

Unless.... The club under two different owners have tried hard and made him sizeable offers to secure his long-term future that he has turned down? Maybe it's down to that? 

Define sizeable?  Because I strongly suspect it’s still less than Sterling, Lukaku, Koulibaly, Kante and James!!  (The latter obviously not too much issue with, but could see why Mount’s advisors would) 

And if it was that competitive, why would he be tempted by Man United / Arsenal / Liverpool etc?  They’re not more successful than us (in recent history) so he wouldn’t be going there for glory, he’s won the champions league here, and we get to cup finals almost every season.  Man City I would  understand. 

I think this is around image rights,  an offer that the club feel is competitive that Mount clearly doesn’t,  and the club trying to get him to sign a longer contact than he is comfortable doing.  For eg, I suspect the club have offered 6/7 years,  and if you were Mason, you’d want 4 years, so you can re-negotiate one final lucrative one at 27/28 ish 

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Rob B said:

Define sizeable?  Because I strongly suspect it’s still less than Sterling, Lukaku, Koulibaly, Kante and James!!  (The latter obviously not too much issue with, but could see why Mount’s advisors would) 

And if it was that competitive, why would he be tempted by Man United / Arsenal / Liverpool etc?  They’re not more successful than us (in recent history) so he wouldn’t be going there for glory, he’s won the champions league here, and we get to cup finals almost every season.  Man City I would  understand. 

I think this is around image rights,  an offer that the club feel is competitive that Mount clearly doesn’t,  and the club trying to get him to sign a longer contact than he is comfortable doing.  For eg, I suspect the club have offered 6/7 years,  and if you were Mason, you’d want 4 years, so you can re-negotiate one final lucrative one at 27/28 ish 

From what's come out, and of course this is purely speculation because in reality none of us truly know the specifics to a tee, the reports of Mount demanding £300k was shut down, while reportedly also been offered a deal similarly to that of RJ's at £250k pw. Mount also has to be aware, at least you would think, that contracts any of his peers signed under the old regime aren't a reflection of what's going to be handed out by the current ownership. More so when one of their biggest points when taking over was to amend the wage structure. With the only exception being the summer transfers because of the nature of how the sale of the club happened and our immediate need for players. 

The competitive side of the argument is one I've touched on before also, most are lateral moves at best. It's not as if he's heading off to genuinely better team like a Man City or Real Madrid. The exception possibly being Liverpool who have a football style that suit Mount and he'd likely get to play in his more preferred midfield position. That may have greater appeal from a self serving stand point.

I doubt the contract length thing is the issue, we've not asked RJ or Chilwell to sign super long deals when they've extended, and they serve no great purpose to a player like Mount anyway who has no transfer fee attached to him due to being an academy product. The point of the long deal for the January signings was to amortise their transfer fees over the length of the contract, a loop hole that's now been closed and capped at 5 years anyway. Football contracts are also renegotiable at any point, so even if he did sign a longer one it wouldn't necessarily prevent him from discussing better terms should he out perform the one signed. 

It's a weird situation as a whole because it's been dragged out for several years now and missed out on millions in the process.

5 hours ago, east lower said:

And there’s the rub, Mount has been nowhere near the worth of RJ for well over a season. 

Clearly the club are trying to get him to sign a new contract - if people believe Lampard’s comments. 

If Mount thinks he worth the same or more, then sayonara old son and see how you fare elsewhere - nice having you at the club but it seems that your ego and wallet are the more important factors to you than our fans and loyalty. Don’t hit your backside on the way out. 

Yeah, the other thing is RJ has/had a better bargaining position also. He's arguably one of the best right backs in world football when fit, Mount isn't close to being one of the best in his position and is arguably an easier player to replace overall. 

Is what it is I guess. 

[Original 21]

Don’t know how reliable this is…

(edit: reporter is a respected Uruguayan journo apparently).

Edited May 26, 2023 by Original 21

[Michael Tucker]

^^^^^

Defensive midfielder. 6' tall. 22 years old. Would be an excellent buy, if true. I'd read though that he'd signed elsewhere.

[xceleryx]

31 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Don’t know how reliable this is…

(edit: reporter is a respected Uruguayan journo apparently).

God I fucking hope so, he looks a brilliant player from what I've seen and everything we need in midfield. 

Although, there was reports yesterday about PSG being in talks with his people. 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Original 21 said:

Don’t know how reliable this is…

(edit: reporter is a respected Uruguayan journo apparently).

€65m and 6 years contract seem to be the clues it BS reporting. 

From what I have seen, he seem to be standing in the wrong place frequently, hence transfersmarket €25m is a more accurate value of the player.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

€65m and 6 years contract seem to be the clues it BS reporting. 

From what I have seen, he seem to be standing in the wrong place frequently, hence transfersmarket €25m is a more accurate value of the player.

€60m (£52m) is his release clause fee. 6 year contract isn't overly far fetched if offered.

From what you've said it screams "I not actually watched him at all" - which is no doubt true, but of course he's potentially a TB Sports Department signing and lord knows you can't be seen having any sort of positive opinion on that.

Those who have actually seen him will tell you he excels defensively, in the tackle, making interceptions through his positional play, passing, and with his dribbling/ball-carrying abilities. He's not a progressive passer, not really creative or going to be a productive player in terms of G/A. What he will do though is be a defensive lynch-pin in the middle of the pitch, provide a physical presence that's also technically sound, and ultimately be a good foil for someone like Enzo. 

For those interested in the statistical side of thing Ugarte virtually sits in the elite bracket domestically in a lot of key areas for his role/position. With a lot of the defensive side of it translating across to his performances in the Champions League this season. 

And for anyone unfamiliar and interested in getting a basic idea of what he looks like;

 

[Spawton]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

€65m and 6 years contract seem to be the clues it BS reporting. 

From what I have seen, he seem to be standing in the wrong place frequently, hence transfersmarket €25m is a more accurate value of the player.

Nope. That's his release clause. If you're Sporting and you've got PSG and Chelsea (at least) after one of your players, you're probably wise to hold out for the release clause. 

[ROTG]

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

€60m (£52m) is his release clause fee. 6 year contract isn't overly far fetched if offered.

Did you write that contracts are now limited to a max 5 years?

Why would the club pay a release clause on a player with no PL experience and little in Europe.  Don’t you think the club wanted enough money on over priced projects. 

19 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

nd for anyone unfamiliar and interested in getting a basic idea of what he looks like;

Rather hear about him from a Sporting fan who watches him week in week out, rather than another YouTube greatest hits video 

[martin1905]

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

€65m and 6 years contract seem to be the clues it BS reporting. 

5 years with a one year option for the club from what I've been told.

Apparently the club are exploring the idea of 5+ year contracts like this one to see if they can get round the new ruling. Very clever if true.

Pochettinos number one target this summer. He also wants a GK and ST. All three deals almost done and will be ready for day one of pre season. No clue on the GK and ST but they are very much who Pochettino wants as he is now part of the TB sports department.

I'm gonna shorten the TB Sports Department to TBSD™ for ease going forward.

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

From what I have seen, he seem to be standing in the wrong place frequently, hence transfersmarket €25m is a more accurate value of the player.

Funny that Trasfermarkt value Mudryk at 60m, Madueke 28m Enzo 85m, Fofana 65m, Sterling 60m and Badiashille 40m so the TBSD™ did a very good job over the last couple of windows. Even Cucurella is 40m and Koulibaly 25m so we paid pretty much the going rate for everyone according to the source you want to use to bash the TBSD™.

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by martin1905

[thevelourfog]

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

€65m and 6 years contract seem to be the clues it BS reporting. 

Exactly, as if Boehly wouldn't whack in a €100m offer and 18 year contract.

[xceleryx]

50 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Did you write that contracts are now limited to a max 5 years?

Why would the club pay a release clause on a player with no PL experience and little in Europe.  Don’t you think the club wanted enough money on over priced projects. 

Amortisation of transfer fees can now capped at 5 years, so we can't do what we did in January and spread the value out over 7 or 8 year deals. Clubs can still offer contracts beyond 5 years however, that's not changed. 

The same reason why clubs spend any amount of money on players that ply their trade outside of the Premier League, they want to sign them. There's no incentive for Sporting to accept less for a player being chased by several clubs and is an important player for them. It also removes the negotiation factor between club and club to find an agreeable transfer fee. 

54 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Rather hear about him from a Sporting fan who watches him week in week out, rather than another YouTube greatest hits video 

Obviously that video wasn't for you since you've naturally seen plenty of him to give us your opinion about the player he is. 😉

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

€60m (£52m) is his release clause fee. 6 year contract isn't overly far fetched if offered.

From what you've said it screams "I not actually watched him at all" - which is no doubt true, but of course he's potentially a TB Sports Department signing and lord knows you can't be seen having any sort of positive opinion on that.

Those who have actually seen him will tell you he excels defensively, in the tackle, making interceptions through his positional play, passing, and with his dribbling/ball-carrying abilities. He's not a progressive passer, not really creative or going to be a productive player in terms of G/A. What he will do though is be a defensive lynch-pin in the middle of the pitch, provide a physical presence that's also technically sound, and ultimately be a good foil for someone like Enzo. 

For those interested in the statistical side of thing Ugarte virtually sits in the elite bracket domestically in a lot of key areas for his role/position. With a lot of the defensive side of it translating across to his performances in the Champions League this season. 

And for anyone unfamiliar and interested in getting a basic idea of what he looks like;

 

From what I have seen of him and admittedly it's only YouTube but extensive amounts of it so the good and the bad, there was a time when Peter Crouch looked like the best player of all time based on his highlights and you'd be a fool to base your opinion of a player on YouTube but those days are long gone, he looks absolute class.

Not only does he look absolute class he looks like the perfect fit for Pochettinos 4231 to play alongside Enzo. Bold statement but I'm not sure there is a better combination to play together in a pivot, anywhere.

GK

James Fofana Badiashille Chilwell

Enzo Ugarte

Mount Nkunku Sterling

ST

Kepa

Gusto Silva Colwill Cucurella

Kante Gallagher

Madueke Chuck Mudryk

Havertz

It's coming together quite nicely.

 

 

[asvaberg]

You think Wes Fofana is worth keeping, @martin1905?

[xceleryx]

10 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

From what I have seen of him and admittedly it's only YouTube but extensive amounts of it so the good and the bad, there was a time when Peter Crouch looked like the best player of all time based on his highlights and you'd be a fool to base your opinion of a player on YouTube but those days are long gone, he looks absolute class.

Not only does he look absolute class he looks like the perfect fit for Pochettinos 4231 to play alongside Enzo. Bold statement but I'm not sure there is a better combination to play together in a pivot, anywhere.

GK

James Fofana Badiashille Chilwell

Enzo Ugarte

Mount Nkunku Sterling

ST

Kepa

Gusto Silva Colwill Cucurella

Kante Gallagher

Madueke Chuck Mudryk

Havertz

It's coming together quite nicely.

Of course, the highlights are more a sample to give people a bit of a visual reference of what he is. I certainly wouldn't make a fully fledged assessment of any player based on a YT video alone. That being said, I do agree that he looks the ideal fit for not only a double pivot but also to partner Enzo and freeing him up a little more. 

We're also still interesting in Lavia and wouldn't be surprised if he revisit that now that Southampton are going down. Albeit still raw, he'd be a decent rotational piece to backup Ugarte. Then it's a matter of picking who we'd prefer to backup Enzo, whether that's Gallagher or someone else already on the books, or if we look externally. 

Would be a young midfield group but one that would provide greater balance with plenty of room to grow. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by xceleryx
spelling

[asvaberg]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

€60m (£52m) is his release clause fee. 6 year contract isn't overly far fetched if offered.

From what you've said it screams "I not actually watched him at all" - which is no doubt true, but of course he's potentially a TB Sports Department signing and lord knows you can't be seen having any sort of positive opinion on that.

Those who have actually seen him will tell you he excels defensively, in the tackle, making interceptions through his positional play, passing, and with his dribbling/ball-carrying abilities. He's not a progressive passer, not really creative or going to be a productive player in terms of G/A. What he will do though is be a defensive lynch-pin in the middle of the pitch, provide a physical presence that's also technically sound, and ultimately be a good foil for someone like Enzo. 

For those interested in the statistical side of thing Ugarte virtually sits in the elite bracket domestically in a lot of key areas for his role/position. With a lot of the defensive side of it translating across to his performances in the Champions League this season. 

And for anyone unfamiliar and interested in getting a basic idea of what he looks like;

 

 

[martin1905]

11 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

You think Wes Fofana is worth keeping, @martin1905?

100%. Not even debatable for me. I think he's going to be one of the very best in the world and have thought that since before we signed him.

[ROTG]

39 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Funny that Trasfermarkt value Mudryk at 60m, Madueke 28m Enzo 85m, Fofana 65m, Sterling 60m and Badiashille 40m so the TBSD™ did a very good job over the last couple of windows. Even Cucurella is 40m and Koulibaly 25m so we paid pretty much the going rate for everyone according to the source you want to use to bash the TBSD™.

 when you analyse the value graph in transfer market, it shows the players value over a year. Spikes like Madueke to 28m came after his transfer.  Before that he value was 15-17m

cant be arsed to review all the players you listed, but you get my gist. 

Like the TBSD.