Transfer Talk Topic

[chiswickblue]

And so begins the demonising of players that the club obviously want to sell! 

They want out, they want to play regularly, they don't see a pathway at the club, etc. etc. Mount always wanted to play for Man Utd, Hall always wanted to play for Newcastle, etc.

The club could have kept Mount, Livramento, Tomori, Guehi and many others if they wanted to. For whatever reason, they have chosen to take a different path and then have used their favourite mouthpieces in the media to put out sympathetic puff pieces explaining why the moves are in everyone's best interests.

There is no evidence to suggest that Gallagher or Chalobah want to leave the club.

I don't believe these moves are in the best interests of Chelsea winning things in the long term, because I believe that making use of your best academy graduates allows you to spend your money on top-quality players that improve the first team, and not on squad players or highly speculative punts on young players that need 2-3 years of loans before they are ready for Chelsea.

[xceleryx]

4 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

The club could have kept Mount, Livramento, Tomori, Guehi and many others if they wanted to. For whatever reason, they have chosen to take a different path and then have used their favourite mouthpieces in the media to put out sympathetic puff pieces explaining why the moves are in everyone's best interests..

Sure, if you also wish to just straight up ignore these players stating they left on their own accord because of footballing opportunities we weren't able to guarantee or provide at the time they were here.

Believe it or not, some of these "fluff pieces" by the "media mouthpieces" were actually valid in stating some of these  moves were best for all parties. 

[chiswickblue]

13 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Sure, if you also wish to just straight up ignore these players stating they left on their own accord because of footballing opportunities we weren't able to guarantee or provide at the time they were here.

Believe it or not, some of these "fluff pieces" by the "media mouthpieces" were actually valid in stating some of these  moves were best for all parties. 

Do you take at face value what is said by players and coaches in interviews?

Very few players wants to burn bridges and outright criticise their former club, but the main point I am making is that the club (both under Roman and the new owners) made mistakes by not creating a clear pathway for academy players that could be useful squad members. This includes excluding them from pre-season tours and taking deadwood instead plus hiring short-term head coaches that have little interest in long-term player development and the future financial and footballing health of the club.

[Mark Kelly]

11 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

Do you take at face value what is said by players and coaches in interviews?

Very few players wants to burn bridges and outright criticise their former club, but the main point I am making is that the club (both under Roman and the new owners) made mistakes by not creating a clear pathway for academy players that could be useful squad members. This includes excluding them from pre-season tours and taking deadwood instead plus hiring short-term head coaches that have little interest in long-term player development and the future financial and footballing health of the club.

What we have to take into consideration is , there are only 11 starting places in the team , some players that have come through the youth set up , foristance Livramento , felt they were good enough to be starting , but they had Reece James blocking their way , it was only when Livramento left that James got a long term injury and Gusto was signed to cover , had Livramento stayed he would have got the chance . 

I cannot remember who was blocking Guehi but it was probably Silva and Rudiger or the like where Guehi was then loaned to get the commensurate experience and so we could have a look at him properly and make a decision , once he got a taste of first team football he was keen for more and stayed at Palace , you win some , you lose some , it's not a finite art , it's educated guessing . 

[xceleryx]

8 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

Do you take at face value what is said by players and coaches in interviews?

Very few players wants to burn bridges and outright criticise their former club, but the main point I am making is that the club (both under Roman and the new owners) made mistakes by not creating a clear pathway for academy players that could be useful squad members. This includes excluding them from pre-season tours and taking deadwood instead plus hiring short-term head coaches that have little interest in long-term player development and the future financial and footballing health of the club.

Generally I'm going to take a players reasoning at face value when it aligns with the situation at the time.

• Tomori was 5th choice behind Rudiger, Silva, Zouma, Christensen and Azpi (when in back three).
• Guehi was behind that same group upon his return from loan, while we were also chasing Kounde. Even with that not happening and Zouma later moving in the window, he'd still have been 4th choice at best. Not really a position he wanted considering he had just been a regular at Swansea.
• Livramento was behind Reece James and Azpi at RB, little has to be said there. He turned down an extension to leave for a regular place at Southampton. Had he shown a bit of patience and stayed there's a good chance he'd have possibly broken through in the next 12-18 months. 
• Mount was likely a bit from both sides, however he also barely endeared himself with his pathetic "goodbye" video and then the whole situation with his old man when arriving "home".

I agree that a pathway at times wasn't always made for our academy lads, but a lot of it also depended on the options ahead of them in their respective positions. Sometimes the timing just doesn't align and your forced into a choice between selling off an established option to promote a kid and hope it pans out, or you sell the kid and see what happens in due course. We can't always have our cake and eat it too. 

[Thiago97]

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I lost all connection to anyone in the youth team the moment Mason Mount decided he wanted to play for Manchester United.

Now, whilst I love Connor and when literally everyone, including most on here didn't rate him or see him as ever being good enough to play for us, he's no Mason Mount.

He's not the young boy in the video  putting a free kick in the 'top bins'. He's not that same boy who went on to win the European Cup fulfilling his and our dreams. As soon as it became clear that someone like that could turn his back on us and even contemplate United any affection I had, any attachment I had to our young players, that had simply gone.

Now, obviously Connor is different and whilst I'd have loved him to stay I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. 

What does make me smile though is  how 99% of people would have happily sold him a year or two ago. If he had gone to Palace for £30m+ most people would have said that was good business. I wonder how many are the same people that are now getting angry about it.

The bit about Mount is just bizarre. The actions of one player being used as a new benchmark for other players. It's like you are using this as an example to justify it to yourself!

The last paragraph I would fall partly into that category. I would not have sold him to Palace for £30m two years ago, but I would have been quite ok with selling him 1 year ago to the clubs linked........However, things change! His value to the club 1 year ago was not as high as his value to the club is now. He proved me wrong, as I didnt think he was capable of improving and having a positive effect on the team 1 year ago. I was critical of him after the first couple of games last season, but he made huge improvements and become a key player. Situations change. No idea why you are not taking that into account and why it would make you smile.

Edited July 31 by Thiago97

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

The irony of this statement is not lost on me.

Oh I bet. You’re more than welcome to defend whatever you want. Equally, me, Biaon, ROTG and others are more than within our rights to criticise the club. Personally I don’t think I’ve been unfair. I’ve clearly stated why I criticise the ownership and the two sporting directors.

Instead of answering those reasons some of you retort to ridicule. Most likely because you have no arguments to put forward.

Anyway, I’m done for a while. Another wasted season forthcoming. It’s rinse and repeat next summer and so the cycle continues.  

[thevelourfog]

Where the fuck is the upfront capital for all these kid signings coming from? I'm not talking about PSR and accounts, I'm talking about the literal money. We don't have £18m just sat in an account waiting to be spent on an 18 year old goalkeeper with one career appearance to their name.

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

What we have to take into consideration is , there are only 11 starting places in the team , some players that have come through the youth set up , foristance Livramento , felt they were good enough to be starting , but they had Reece James blocking their way , it was only when Livramento left that James got a long term injury and Gusto was signed to cover , had Livramento stayed he would have got the chance . 

I cannot remember who was blocking Guehi but it was probably Silva and Rudiger or the like where Guehi was then loaned to get the commensurate experience and so we could have a look at him properly and make a decision , once he got a taste of first team football he was keen for more and stayed at Palace , you win some , you lose some , it's not a finite art , it's educated guessing . 

And this was exactly the situation prevailing in our acquisition of Cole Palmer.

Edited July 31 by RDCW

[Chelsea_Matt]

19 minutes ago, RDCW said:

And this was exactly the situation prevailing in our acquisition of Cole Palmer.

Agreed. The thing is is that Conor is a regular so why he appears to be leaving I don’t know. It’s easy to blame the club as many do here as a default but we’ll never know why I guess. 👀🙃💀😔

Edited July 31 by Chelsea_Matt

[east lower]

The consensus of opinion of callers (Chelsea fans) into a talk show on the radio this morning is that the Gallagher potential sale is the one step too far for them, as regards the current owners.

One bloke, John - a supporter for 60 years (he certainly sounded as though he could have been) was apoplectic and almost in tears. 
 

This one (if true) might just be the straw that breaks the fans backs, as regards the ownership. That’s assuming we don’t perform this season. If we perform and finish top four, most will forget Conor, quite quickly. Fickle lot that we generally are 😉.

[Rob B]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Where the fuck is the upfront capital for all these kid signings coming from? I'm not talking about PSR and accounts, I'm talking about the literal money. We don't have £18m just sat in an account waiting to be spent on an 18 year old goalkeeper with one career appearance to their name.

I don’t think many signings are paid in full up front but your general point is very valid, even if it was 60% up front, it still requires enormous capital which we certainly don’t have. 

So I’ve no idea on the answer!  Maybe it explains the desire to sell the likes of Chalobah / Gallagher.   Ie not book performance in terms of PSR but actual cash flow. 

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

The bit about Mount is just bizarre. The actions of one player being used as a new benchmark for other players. It's like you are using this as an example to justify it to yourself!

Not really,  it's just how it makes me feel after after 25 years of going to games. After watching countless youth players that were supposedly the next big thing never come to fruition. After finally seeing one of our own make it, not only make it but watch him, I was there, lift the Euripean cup.

After all that and he goes to Man United and have to listen to his Dad say 'we are finally home' my affections towards the youth players died.

Maybe thats bizzare to you, thats ok.

 

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

The last paragraph I would fall partly into that category. I would not have sold him to Palace for £30m two years ago, but I would have been quite ok with selling him 1 year ago to the clubs linked........However, things change! His value to the club 1 year ago was not as high as his value to the club is now. He proved me wrong, as I didnt think he was capable of improving and having a positive effect on the team 1 year ago. I was critical of him after the first couple of games last season, but he made huge improvements and become a key player. Situations change. No idea why you are not taking that into account and why it would make you smile.

On a forum where people are constantly trying to score loints, love to say I told you so and pull peoples thoughts and opinions apart, little wonder I have a wry smile at all those that got him wrong.

Not smiling at the situation,  just all the people that have this need to always be right, always tell others they are wrong, it does make me smile when they are wrong. Apologies. 

Edited July 31 by martin1905

[Ham]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Oh I bet. You’re more than welcome to defend whatever you want. Equally, me, Biaon, ROTG and others are more than within our rights to criticise the club. Personally I don’t think I’ve been unfair. I’ve clearly stated why I criticise the ownership and the two sporting directors.

Instead of answering those reasons some of you retort to ridicule. Most likely because you have no arguments to put forward.

Anyway, I’m done for a while. Another wasted season forthcoming. It’s rinse and repeat next summer and so the cycle continues.  

Nobody said you couldn't criticise the club. The majority on here disagree with the likes of me currently so don't pretend you're an oppressed minority. 

As for not providing arguments to the contrary, I've posted multiple times how I think our squad is strong and that with the exception of one or two transfers, I'm ok with the owners.

When somebody posts that the owners are deliberately trying to build a shit squad, I'm going to ridicule that. It's stupid.  

[martin1905]

5 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

And so begins the demonising of players that the club obviously want to sell! 

Has that happened? The only demonising I have seen is of the owners and board, certainly not the players and it comes from people making assumption as none of us have the answers.

5 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

They want out, they want to play regularly, they don't see a pathway at the club, etc. etc. Mount always wanted to play for Man Utd, Hall always wanted to play for Newcastle, etc.

The club could have kept Mount, Livramento, Tomori, Guehi and many others if they wanted to. For whatever reason, they have chosen to take a different path and then have used their favourite mouthpieces in the media to put out sympathetic puff pieces explaining why the moves are in everyone's best interests.

There is no evidence to suggest that Gallagher or Chalobah want to leave the club.

I don't believe these moves are in the best interests of Chelsea winning things in the long term, because I believe that making use of your best academy graduates allows you to spend your money on top-quality players that improve the first team, and not on squad players or highly speculative punts on young players that need 2-3 years of loans before they are ready for Chelsea.

A lot of assumption going on today and people getting very angry yet anyone that has a more balanced view is getting criticised, by angry people that just don't seem to understand why some don't share their views and because we ask questions it just makes them even angrier.

It's a lot easier, human nature, to get angry about things that upset you even without an explanation. 

Truth is we just don't know Conor's thoughts or feelings, if we've offered a new contract, if the terms we're terrible, if he'd even want to stay. 

What if, and rightly so, he won't accept a lesser role, something you yourself alluded to him maybe having to?

Truth is we just don't know.

 

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Not really,  it's just how it makes me feel after after 25 years of going to games. After watching countless youth players that were supposedly the next big thing never come to fruition. After finally seeing one of our own make it, not only make it but watch him, I was there, lift the Euripean cup.

After all that and he goes to Man United and have to listen to his Dad say 'we are finally home' my affections towards the youth players died.

Maybe thats bizzare to you, thats ok.

 

On a forum where people are constantly trying to score loints, love to say I told you so and pull peoples thoughts and opinions apart, little wonder I have a wry smile at all those that got him wrong.

Not smiling at the situation,  just all the people that have this need to always be right, always tell others they are wrong, it does make me smile when they are wrong. Apologies. 

I have no problem with admitting I am wrong. I said I was wrong on Gallagher around Xmas time last year, so Gallagher proving me wrong is not new.  The fact I have openly admitted it, surely tell you that I don't need to always be right 🙂You just get frustrated that I get a lot right, that's your main axe to grind with me!

You are the only poster on here who continues to tell me that I am not always right/ and I should respect other peoples opinions etc etc . Everyone else I debate with is fine, if I agree or don't agree with them, so maybe you need to look inwards on this one.

As for your positive view on many things with the club right now, we know you will turn quicker than milk in the desert if we have a bad start. Weeks of taking a position that we dont need to improve on what Poch achieved in your opinion, to predicting 3rd off the back of two bang average pre-season games, the usual consistency!.......the turn is only about 8 weeks away from reality.

Don't worry , I wont be around to pick it all apart though.....I can't be doing with these endless debates over this shit direction the club has gone down, I am not even that bothered if it does bring success. Just not engaged enough with it to care anymore......I will leave that to you season ticket holders to enjoy :) 

 

[Thiago97]

30 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Has that happened? The only demonising I have seen is of the owners and board, certainly not the players and it comes from people making assumption as none of us have the answers.

A lot of assumption going on today and people getting very angry yet anyone that has a more balanced view is getting criticised, by angry people that just don't seem to understand why some don't share their views and because we ask questions it just makes them even angrier.

It's a lot easier, human nature, to get angry about things that upset you even without an explanation. 

Truth is we just don't know Conor's thoughts or feelings, if we've offered a new contract, if the terms we're terrible, if he'd even want to stay. 

What if, and rightly so, he won't accept a lesser role, something you yourself alluded to him maybe having to?

Truth is we just don't know.

 

You spat the dummy and gave up your season ticket last season 🙂 consistent as always 

[martin1905]

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I have no problem with admitting I am wrong. I said I was wrong on Gallagher around Xmas time last year, so Gallagher proving me wrong is not new.  The fact I have openly admitted it, surely tell you that I don't need to always be right 🙂You just get frustrated that I get a lot right, that's your main axe to grind with me!

You are the only poster on here who continues to tell me that I am not always right/ and I should respect other peoples opinions etc etc . Everyone else I debate with is fine, if I agree or don't agree with them, so maybe you need to look inwards on this one.

As for your positive view on many things with the club right now, we know you will turn quicker than milk in the desert if we have a bad start. Weeks of taking a position that we dont need to improve on what Poch achieved in your opinion, to predicting 3rd off the back of two bang average pre-season games, the usual consistency!.......the turn is only about 8 weeks away from reality.

Don't worry , I wont be around to pick it all apart though.....I can't be doing with these endless debates over this shit direction the club has gone down, I am not even that bothered if it does bring success. Just not engaged enough with it to care anymore......I will leave that to you season ticket holders to enjoy 🙂

 

You just explained why I do it, with you.

You may not be around, going forward but it's what you do for some peculiar reason.

The fact that you've picked up on something from an entirely different post sums it up, the bit about Pochettino.  Very strange how you stalk me.......

[martin1905]

6 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

You spat the dummy and gave up your season ticket last season 🙂 consistent as always 

Spat the dummy out?

Had a mental breakdown, was suffering with panic attacks and diagnosed with PTSD, Anxiety,  Depression 

After 25 years I felt like I needed a break. 

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

You just explained why I do it, with you.

You may not be around, going forward but it's what you do for some peculiar reason.

The fact that you've picked up on something from an entirely different post sums it up, the bit about Pochettino.  Very strange how you stalk me.......

No stalking. It’s just paying attention to what posters post. Call it common courtesy really. You are the one who puts it all out there on display. I don’t know anyone’s job in real life on here, apart from you being Mr train driver……again look inwards, it’s not stalking. It’s you putting the information out there!

Edited July 31 by My Blood Is Blue
Deleted part of the post that was unnecersary

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

When somebody posts that the owners are deliberately trying to build a shit squad, I'm going to ridicule that. It's stupid.  

I don't think anyone thinks the club deliberately tried to build a poop squad, what the club have done is hired a couple of unqualified scouts tried to build a squad without any input from the key player the first team coach/Manager 

[chara]

PLEASE EVERYONE....LETS JUST ALL CALM DOWN,,,

So much aggression due maybe to the puzzlement and frustrations of the way Chelsea appears to be being managed.

So many intelligent literate sensible voices I get great pleasure from when following their posts at each others throats over football?

WE ARE ALL CHELSEA,,don't lose sight of that;

No body needs banning for honest, if possibly over reauctioning, views...I'm sure face to face all would take a deep breath and step back.

This is OUR forum and squabbles and disagreements are as a part of it as the silly smiles acute observation and insightful discussion. 

Lets keep it that way.........

 

[Morgs]

OK- how about a change of tack.

Who would be interested in a CFC-NET drinks meet-up in London in a couple of weeks? Would be nice to meet a few of you, and maybe if we can buy each other a pint or a mineral water, perhaps things might be a little less strained.

Any interest? Anyone?

 

[chara]

4 minutes ago, Morgs said:

OK- how about a change of tack.

Who would be interested in a CFC-NET drinks meet-up in London in a couple of weeks? Would be nice to meet a few of you, and maybe if we can buy each other a pint or a mineral water, perhaps things might be a little less strained.

Any interest? Anyone?

 

Something I would give anything to attend but for obvious reasons not possible.

[Ham]

56 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Spat the dummy out?

Had a mental breakdown, was suffering with panic attacks and diagnosed with PTSD, Anxiety,  Depression 

After 25 years I felt like I needed a break. 

Sorry to hear that Martin.  Hope you're on the right track now.

 

 

(No pun was intended when I typed that but I had to leave it in after consideration 😉).