Transfer Talk Topic

[chara]

13 minutes ago, Ham said:

I find it very hard to believe that the club have genuinely said "You're training with the kids". 

Seems a step too far. 

On the side of the support for Trev/Conor but the headlines look to me to be media "Interpretations"...where else would they train at this time? and banished to where?..the squad?

Everyone is elsewhere ,,,,,,,,,,

Not excusing the actions as we are seeing them but the media just love to hammer Chelsea as we all know.

[xceleryx]

As much as I do like Gallagher and also don't want him sold, realistically being considered a "squad player" isn't that outlandish of a status for him to take. We're going to play heavy possession football, and while Gallagher is a willing runner and presser he does lack from the technical side which does harm his general fit - whether people like it or not. Now that we've also got KDH who offers similar qualities but is superior technically, it does push Gallagher down the rung.

Gallagher is from both the eye and statistical perspective "average" when it comes to things like progressive passes, passes into the final third, through balls, etc. All things you're going to want form a midfielder with the way Maresca looks to play. 

He can still of course contribute, and he naturally probably wants a first team role that sees him regularly playing, that just may be difficult here with the direction we're opting to go. A common situation many players find themselves in at one point or another during their careers. 

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, Bison said:

I guess more people are going to believe this now. 

This is really funny. Maresca has said he wants to play a high press, man-to-man marking off the ball. I can't think of anybody in our squad more suited to that style of play than Gallagher. 

In what world is Enzo (one of the slowest players in the league and a  liability out of possession) better suited to these tactics?

Touched on this just before but no point being an excellent presser when you also aren't able to use the ball optimally when in possession. As great as Gallagher is from a running standpoint his technical and on ball qualities are average at best. KDH's arrival gives us some of that running power of Gallagher but also a better technician for a possession focused side.

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, martin1905 said:

He's gonna turn down Athletico and run down his contract then.

Fair play to him but also fair play to the club if they go down this road.

 

They need to name one of the dressing room Coventry, where the likes of Connor, kepa, Lukaku, Trevor can hang out. 

Edited August 3 by ROTG

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

I find it very hard to believe that the club have genuinely said "You're training with the kids". 

Seems a step too far. 

So who are Trevor, Lukaku, kepa to name a few training with?

[thevelourfog]

6 hours ago, Ham said:

I find it very hard to believe that the club have genuinely said "You're training with the kids". 

Seems a step too far. 

It may well prove to be coincidentally true, but it shows pretty clearly that at least one of the stories about Gallagher is a lie. He's been told he's going to be a squad player, and then an hour or two later he's banned from first team training? These things can't both be true, and even if an escalation like that happened in that short window of time, it isn't making it out of the club that quickly.

I think it is completely clear the club want or need his transfer value more than his playing ability and want him gone, jot questioning that. But these stories don't really add up.

[east lower]

6 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

I think they’re just very dishonest, manipulative people. 

They have money but as the old saying goes, money doesn’t buy you class. 

[Rob B]

Regarding Gallagher,  something was always going to come out from his side following the briefing on Thursday evening about the new deal.   Honestly, we’ve only got ourselves to blame for this mess with the constant leaking of details to the media. 

As with a lot of these things (and coincidentally the Mason Mount saga too) I suspect the answer lies somewhere between the two stories.

I highly doubt the club have said to him you will be banished from training, but they may well have said “listen, Enzo’s got enough numbers in America already, you’re not up to speed so won’t play against Real Madrid anyway and therefore we’re not flying you out”  with a subtle view of edging him towards Athletico. 

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Conor wants to leave and I think this is starting to dawn on the club.  They made a huge deal when they arrived about the negligence of losing Rudiger and Christensen on free deals and are clearly getting desperate.

Best thing they could do it’s get back around the table and offer him a 4 year deal on the same wages as before.  

[Ham]

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

So who are Trevor, Lukaku, kepa to name a few training with?

The club have been honest enough to say to Chalobah and Gallagher "you're not likely to start games". 

Personally I'd keep TC over Badiashile but I genuinely can't see where CG will get a game in the current midfield. He was great last season in a team built on fitness and pressing but he's quite limited otherwise and doesn't score enough or assist enough. 

He'll be brilliant for someone else. 

Lukaku can train with the Under 8s for all I care. 

[xceleryx]

24 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Best thing they could do it’s get back around the table and offer him a 4 year deal on the same wages as before.  

No point handing out a longer term deal to someone that doesn't necessarily fit the football requirements either. If Maresca also see's him as a squad option, or someone ill-suited, then it's a pretty big gamble on Gallaghers behalf. There's a high probability he'd still be shopped around, and he'd probably know that himself. 

[ROTG]

44 minutes ago, Ham said:

I genuinely can't see where CG will get a game in the current midfield. He was great last season in a team built on fitness and pressing but he's quite limited otherwise and doesn't score enough or assist enough. 

Seeing as he outperformed the entire midfield last season, I find it hard to understand how anyone can say he is not up to it, especially as he has not even trained with squad.

As for the mascara system let see how long that takes to implement or get found out.

One hopes CG just says no and chooses his own destiny in January 

[Floyd25]

29 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

If Maresca also see's him as a squad option, or someone ill-suited, then it's a pretty big gamble on Gallaghers behalf. There's a high probability he'd still be shopped around, and he'd probably know that himself. 

I think Maresca just does what he’s told, don’t you? Of coarse he has ideas on certain players and whether they fit his system or not and can make suggestions, but if Clearlake see there’s pure profit to be made, than he has to go along with it, without even meeting the player or training with him. 

[east lower]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

As much as I do like Gallagher and also don't want him sold, realistically being considered a "squad player" isn't that outlandish of a status for him to take. We're going to play heavy possession football, and while Gallagher is a willing runner and presser he does lack from the technical side which does harm his general fit - whether people like it or not. Now that we've also got KDH who offers similar qualities but is superior technically, it does push Gallagher down the rung.

Gallagher is from both the eye and statistical perspective "average" when it comes to things like progressive passes, passes into the final third, through balls, etc. All things you're going to want form a midfielder with the way Maresca looks to play. 

He can still of course contribute, and he naturally probably wants a first team role that sees him regularly playing, that just may be difficult here with the direction we're opting to go. A common situation many players find themselves in at one point or another during their careers. 

I've already read direct quotes from the new coach about pressing higher up the pitch. Quite strange when we spent most of last season doing the polar opposite of that and when we did the only two who did the pressing was Caicedo and Gallagher.

KDH was one if the best players on the pitch in the FA Cup game against Leicester last season, but his best work is in the opposition half and generally from a wide left area - a good thing but he's not going to out work a Gallagher.

Gallagher would have been a squad player in our better sides, but we are currently not one of our better sides.

[Sleeping Dave]

7 minutes ago, east lower said:

I've already read direct quotes from the new coach about pressing higher up the pitch. Quite strange when we spent most of last season doing the polar opposite of that and when we did the only two who did the pressing was Caicedo and Gallagher.

KDH was one if the best players on the pitch in the FA Cup game against Leicester last season, but his best work is in the opposition half and generally from a wide left area - a good thing but he's not going to out work a Gallagher.

Gallagher would have been a squad player in our better sides, but we are currently not one of our better sides.

I find it very odd that Gallagher seemingly don’t have a role to play in this side. Personally, my midfield six would be;

Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Dewsbury-Hall, Lavia, Chukwuemeka

Ugochukwu feels very much like overkill. Palmer and Nkunku also likely to compete for one of the three “CM” positions as well out on the wing with Sterling, Mudryk and Madueke. 

Im going to state the obvious. Gallagher is not sold for footballing reasons. Let’s just all stop pretending that he is. He is sold, much like Chalobah, to finance the craziness this ownership has gotten themselves into. Next summer there will be other academy players turn to be culled. I wouldn’t put it past them to sell James and Colwill at some stage. 

[xceleryx]

20 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

I think Maresca just does what he’s told, don’t you? Of coarse he has ideas on certain players and whether they fit his system or not and can make suggestions, but if Clearlake see there’s pure profit to be made, than he has to go along with it, without even meeting the player or training with him. 

Maresca's still going to pick the players he feels are best, and you can't really argue that in a possession based side that Gallagher is arguably one of the weaker midfield options in this area. Now, he's of course got other great assets that are of use, and IMO I still want him here, but with KDH's arrival we've essentially replaced Gallagher's skillset while adding better technical qualities. 

From a business perspective Gallagher's a player with a year left on contract and we've known since ownership took over that they aren't willing and wanting to let players leave for free. This is doubly important when it comes to homegrown ones where they are pure profit from a PSR standpoint. Rightly or wrongly, that's just reality.

[xceleryx]

14 minutes ago, east lower said:

I've already read direct quotes from the new coach about pressing higher up the pitch. Quite strange when we spent most of last season doing the polar opposite of that and when we did the only two who did the pressing was Caicedo and Gallagher.

KDH was one if the best players on the pitch in the FA Cup game against Leicester last season, but his best work is in the opposition half and generally from a wide left area - a good thing but he's not going to out work a Gallagher.

Gallagher would have been a squad player in our better sides, but we are currently not one of our better sides.

As I acknowledged in said post, Gallagher provides some of what we want with respects to higher pressing but again once he has the ball his limitations come into play. No one is arguing that Gallagher can't press, it's more about once the ball is won and how we function from there.

It's a little bit of a throwback in ways to Kante playing higher up the pitch. Was excellent winning the ball back high, applying pressure and alike, but virtually every time he won the ball in the final third or was required to kickstart attacking phases his technical limitations cost us. 

The question becomes about strengths vs weaknesses and that impacts the overall team and system being implemented. I've no doubt Gallagher could contribute, but there's better systems out there that would make greater use of his abilities. 

I hope he stays and signed a new deal, but also understand the footballing aspects to it as well. 

[Mark Kelly]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I find it very odd that Gallagher seemingly don’t have a role to play in this side. Personally, my midfield six would be;

Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Dewsbury-Hall, Lavia, Chukwuemeka

Ugochukwu feels very much like overkill. Palmer and Nkunku also likely to compete for one of the three “CM” positions as well out on the wing with Sterling, Mudryk and Madueke. 

 

So .

A squad player then

Which is what was reported .

[Sleeping Dave]

25 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

So .

A squad player then

Which is what was reported .

They are all squad players, so a nothing ‘story’ really. Some will be expected to play more than others, but at the end of the day, if Enzo plays as badly as he has he’ll find himself on the bench. Ditto any other player. Gone are the days when we had a Drogba, a Lampard, a Terry or a prime Essien. Those were undroppable. I don’t see anyone having that status in our squad today. They are all expendable bar Palmer. 

Connor is one of those players who always finds a way to get into the side. Especially in the PL his qualities aren’t only nice to have. They are often essential. This is nothing more than a song and dance to defend the decision to sell. But it’s been on the cards for so long it’s bloody obvious what the clubs intentions are. Just come out and say that instead of this rubbish they are briefing the press with now. If you have bad intentions, just stay quiet. The vast majority of fans are smart enough to read what’s going on. In a funny way this has probably the opposite effect to what they were going for. 

[east lower]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

As I acknowledged in said post, Gallagher provides some of what we want with respects to higher pressing but again once he has the ball his limitations come into play. No one is arguing that Gallagher can't press, it's more about once the ball is won and how we function from there.

It's a little bit of a throwback in ways to Kante playing higher up the pitch. Was excellent winning the ball back high, applying pressure and alike, but virtually every time he won the ball in the final third or was required to kickstart attacking phases his technical limitations cost us. 

The question becomes about strengths vs weaknesses and that impacts the overall team and system being implemented. I've no doubt Gallagher could contribute, but there's better systems out there that would make greater use of his abilities. 

I hope he stays and signed a new deal, but also understand the footballing aspects to it as well. 

I feel that the footballing aspects are playing second fiddle to the commercial aspects, as well as there being an “I can p**s higher-up the wall than you can” thing going on.

No point having great footballers, if you can’t get the ball back.

Not arguing about Gallagher, as I said he’d not get in our better sides from the past. But I am stating that he’s being targeted for reasons that this current management teams’ purchases also have. 

[ROTG]

9 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

if Enzo plays as badly as he has he’ll find himself on the bench.

Enzo should not even be playing for the club. 

However Enzo will not be dropped regardless because this coach will do exactly what he is told. 

It's now a case of the two scouts justifying all the money they have spent in the past 3 transfer windows 

[Sciatika]

9 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

They are all squad players, so a nothing ‘story’ really. Some will be expected to play more than others, but at the end of the day, if Enzo plays as badly as he has he’ll find himself on the bench. Ditto any other player. Gone are the days when we had a Drogba, a Lampard, a Terry or a prime Essien. Those were undroppable. I don’t see anyone having that status in our squad today..

I never thought anyone was undroppable, though it may have seemed like it sometimes. The thing about Terry and Lampard is that they put in at least seven out of ten every time. Memory tells me that Drogba and Essien may have had more absences, but that might be because of injury or AfCoN, so happy to be proved wrong. I think if they had a stinker, they would be subbed, sort it out in training and would probably return for the next game.

[xceleryx]

47 minutes ago, east lower said:

I feel that the footballing aspects are playing second fiddle to the commercial aspects, as well as there being an “I can p**s higher-up the wall than you can” thing going on.

No point having great footballers, if you can’t get the ball back.

Not arguing about Gallagher, as I said he’d not get in our better sides from the past. But I am stating that he’s being targeted for reasons that this current management teams’ purchases also have. 

There's no doubt an element of both aspects being part of the overall decision. From a footballing sense he isn't necessarily in our best eleven for a side that wants to play as we do, his biggest weakness from a skillset perspective is what we're going to be fundamentally relying on, and then you have his contract situation on top. 

The shorter term deal is obviously one that is designed to retain his value, while also not necessarily tying the club down longer term to a player that may ultimately not be a good fit under Maresca. 

On the flip side homegrown players are valuable with the way PSR is deigned at present, we've continuously sold off academy players even under Roman, so the process in itself isn't new either. And where people like to hear it or not, part of the purpose of an academy is  to also generate revenue through sales, not just to develop players for our own first team. Gallagher's contract situation also puts him at a crossroads, most clubs can't afford to just let an asset like Gallagher leave for nothing. 

There's naturally give and take from both sides, and I do hope we can maybe find a suitable arrangement for all even if I'm not optimistic that'll be the case. That being said, with everyone fit in midfield we're stacked for options and Gallagher is arguably the one that is least complimentary. He may of course prove that to be wrong should he remain, but it will be a tough ask if the decision has been made where his role will be of a squad variety - something that is ultimately going to come from the manager. 

[bertles86]

19 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Next summer there will be other academy players turn to be culled. I wouldn’t put it past them to sell James and Colwill at some stage. 

Gilchrist highly likely to be sold too. It's abundantly clear that the powers that be, are running the club transfer business to generate profit not to win football matches. 

[east lower]

Sell the silver to pay for the pig metal purchases.

We are buying (mostly) in the ‘hope’ market. Hoping they turn out ok. My mind is being turned now, I genuinely am beginning to think the DOF are verging on inept, aided and abetted by the owners and their directed strategies.

Said it last season and nothings happened yet to change my way of thinking, the best way out of this malaise is a sale of the club.

 

[Bigpokey24]