Transfer Talk Topic

[xceleryx]

12 hours ago, Bison said:

Sorry but us having no striker isn't Mudryk's issue. His issue is down to bad technique and just generally being a poor footballer (this is purely based on what we've seen in a Chelsea shirt).

Madueke in comparison looks far more skilled and accomplished. No striker issues for him. 

There's always talk from Chelsea fans about our own academy players being sent on loan to go learn how to play. That actually applies to Mudryk more than any other player in the squad right now. 

I think the one thing that also hasn't helped Mudryk besides the obvious nature of his arrival, is that when we've often played him the ball always gets forced down the other wing. So when the handful of plays that do end up down his side occurs he's trying too hard to take those opportunities.

From a statistical standpoint he's averaging just under 24 touches a game in the league with an average of 44 minutes per match. Madueke in comparison is averaging 38.7 touches per game with an average of 54 minutes per appearance. Sterling also averages 36.6 touches per game in his 68 minute per match average. 

Not to say he doesn't need to improve his touch or control, but a player like him having less ball is going to mean trying to over compensate with the possession he does have. 

[xceleryx]

13 hours ago, Ham said:

His broken down numbers aren't all that really when compared to Caicedo and Rice who both operate in a better league.

Hard to compare like-for-like when Ugarte competes in a different league, but he ranks higher than both Caicdeo and Rice in several categories that are of importance to us based on this season. 

https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?request=1&sum=0&dom_lg=1&player_id1=c9817014&p1yrfrom=2022-2023&player_id2=16264a81&p2yrfrom=2022-2023&player_id3=1c7012b8&p3yrfrom=2022-2023

Full breakdown is there in the link, but couple quick ones that stand out above the others.

• 91.6% pass completion rate
• 121 tackles, 21 more than Caicedo despite less games
• 69 tackles won
• 123 dribbles challenged, virtually double everyone else
• More attempted take-on's with a success rate of 54.8% (highest)

His Champions League number also stack up quite favourably when compared to his league stats, especially from a defensive stand point. 

Again, he's a bit of a different compare to either Rice or Caicedo but that doesn't necessarily make him inferior either.

[Rob B]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I think the one thing that also hasn't helped Mudryk besides the obvious nature of his arrival, is that when we've often played him the ball always gets forced down the other wing. So when the handful of plays that do end up down his side occurs he's trying too hard to take those opportunities.

From a statistical standpoint he's averaging just under 24 touches a game in the league with an average of 44 minutes per match. Madueke in comparison is averaging 38.7 touches per game with an average of 54 minutes per appearance. Sterling also averages 36.6 touches per game in his 68 minute per match average. 

Not to say he doesn't need to improve his touch or control, but a player like him having less ball is going to mean trying to over compensate with the possession he does have. 

I remember texting my family group chat at half time during one match that he started recently, saying that he needs to try and get in the game more.

I don’t know if he’s hiding a bit due to confidence, or he just picks poorer positions, but I’m pretty sure that going down our right side more isn’t tactical.  With all due respect to Sterling or Madueke, neither of them are Eden Hazard, so if this is happening, it’s happening naturally because those players are more available etc. 

Between him and the new coaching team, there’s quite a bit of work to do there.  Fortunately he seems to have the willpower / mindset. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Rob B

[ROTG]

20 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

 Mudryk looks utterly incapable

He's one of those recruited for the future

l'll get my coat

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Again, he's a bit of a different compare to either Rice or Caicedo but that doesn't necessarily make him inferior either.

The question is whether he is worth 56m punt?

[Bison]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I think the one thing that also hasn't helped Mudryk besides the obvious nature of his arrival, is that when we've often played him the ball always gets forced down the other wing. So when the handful of plays that do end up down his side occurs he's trying too hard to take those opportunities.

From a statistical standpoint he's averaging just under 24 touches a game in the league with an average of 44 minutes per match. Madueke in comparison is averaging 38.7 touches per game with an average of 54 minutes per appearance. Sterling also averages 36.6 touches per game in his 68 minute per match average. 

Not to say he doesn't need to improve his touch or control, but a player like him having less ball is going to mean trying to over compensate with the possession he does have. 

I think that is because Mudryk has often played at the same time as Madueke, who is a much better player. The rest of the players clearly know this (I'm sure it didn't take them long to suss this out in training).

You can tell how good or bad a player is by how often their teammates try to find them.

[ROTG]

5 minutes ago, Bison said:

I think that is because Mudryk has often played at the same time as Madueke, who is a much better player.

Wow - one below and one at CHO level, what a great 100m investment that is

1 minute ago, ROTG said:

Wow - one below and one at CHO level, what a great 100m investment that is

There investments for the future

[xceleryx]

28 minutes ago, Rob B said:

I remember texting my family group chat at half time during one match that he started recently, saying that he needs to try and get in the game more.

I don’t know if he’s hiding a bit due to confidence, or he just picks poorer positions, but I’m pretty sure that going down our right side more isn’t tactical.  With all due respect to Sterling or Madueke, neither of them are Eden Hazard, so if this is happening, it’s happening naturally because those players are more available etc. 

Between him and the new coaching team, there’s quite a bit of work to do there.  Fortunately he seems to have the willpower / mindset. 

There's a few underlying causes from what I've noticed so far. I think some of it is confidence as you've touched on and in turn his positioning to receive the ball maybe not being the best it could be.

I also believe he gets ignored a lot, and that's not helped by those who've generally played on that left hand side - Sterling has suffered this also at times. Chilwell doesn't necessarily link play well down the left, as his game more entails him getting in behind with deep runs. The by-product of this is can see the winger having to drop back to cover the gap defensively. Cucurella and Hall are better, but also hit and miss for various reasons. 

The other is that I don't think we've really utilised Mudryk well in general. He's played down the middle briefly, tucked in central from the left as more of an attacking midfielder, and just not quite seen the time as a true out and out winger where he can push wide and be played in early to maximise is speed in behind. We often had similar issues with Werner, so it's not a new thing. 

But yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how Poch handles things. If he can get our front-line working in a similar manner to that of Son, Kante and Lucas trio then we'll be a more dangerous side. Just need that CF really. 

27 minutes ago, ROTG said:

The question is whether he is worth 56m punt?

He is for me. If he had no release clause Sporting would no doubt demand more than the £52m release clause, and he's going to be around half the cost of either Caicedo or Rice. 

While I like the other two I do believe Ugarte is better business and more of that grittier defensive player we need. 

[xceleryx]

25 minutes ago, Bison said:

I think that is because Mudryk has often played at the same time as Madueke, who is a much better player. The rest of the players clearly know this (I'm sure it didn't take them long to suss this out in training).

You can tell how good or bad a player is by how often their teammates try to find them.

Yes and no. I do expect a side to recognise the "hot hand" and look to feed them the ball more often, but I don't buy into the idea that Mudryk is being overlooked because Madueke has been on the other side. 

I touched on several other factors I think contribute to Mudryk's situation when relying to @Rob B, so won't rehash it again. I expect us to utilise him better moving forward though, and he'll certainly prosper with an actual pre-season worth of fitness into him. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by xceleryx
Formatting fix.

[xceleryx]

 

[paulw66]

Not sure if this was the right place to post this......... I don't know if anyone listens to Podcasts, but I have been listening to Steven Bartlett's Diary of a CEO. One of his interviews is with Patrice Evra. It's a really interesting listen (for various reasons) but I have put this in transfer talk, as he talks about how he struggled for 6 months after joining United. The speed, the intensity of the PL, and having joined in January, mid season. 

This is / was a seasoned, French international, and he says he and Vidic struggled so much, they were even subbed off in a reserve game and they both, in the early stages, talked between themselves about leaving as they found it too difficult.

Real eye opener if you think players can all just pitch up from a foreign league halfway through a season and just turn it on. I have said a few times on here, I wont be judging any of the January signings until much further into their Chelsea career(s).

They are all available on YouTube 

[xceleryx]

4 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Not sure if this was the right place to post this......... I don't know if anyone listens to Podcasts, but I have been listening to Steven Bartlett's Diary of a CEO. One of his interviews is with Patrice Evra. It's a really interesting listen (for various reasons) but I have put this in transfer talk, as he talks about how he struggled for 6 months after joining United. The speed, the intensity of the PL, and having joined in January, mid season. 

This is / was a seasoned, French international, and he says he and Vidic struggled so much, they were even subbed off in a reserve game and they both, in the early stages, talked between themselves about leaving as they found it too difficult.

Real eye opener if you think players can all just pitch up from a foreign league halfway through a season and just turn it on. I have said a few times on here, I wont be judging any of the January signings until much further into their Chelsea career(s).

They are all available on YouTube 

Seen snippets of this on other social media, specifically the part you touched on with Evra and Vidic struggling after arriving.

It's a good point though and one I've always pointed towards with respects to quite a few of our new signings. There'll always be exceptions, such as Enzo in our case, but it's not always how it goes either and every individual is different. 

Like yourself I'll be giving our new recruits time before fully drawing judgement - this goes for those signed in the summer also. 

[ROTG]

44 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

While I like the other two I do believe Ugarte is better business and more of that grittier defensive player we need. 

Maybe the next Matic if he can stand in the right place 😀

3 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Seen snippets of this on other social media, specifically the part you touched on with Evra and Vidic struggling after arriving.

It's a good point though and one I've always pointed towards with respects to quite a few of our new signings. There'll always be exceptions, such as Enzo in our case, but it's not always how it goes either and every individual is different. 

Like yourself I'll be giving our new recruits time before fully drawing judgement - this goes for those signed in the summer also. 

So when would you expect the see the fruits of the clubs investments over the past two transfer windows, the coming season, or the one after?

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Maybe the next Matic if he can stand in the right place 😀

Droy would be proud of you for this one.

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

So when would you expect the see the fruits of the clubs investments over the past two transfer windows, the coming season, or the one after?

There's no blanket rule for me, really does vary player to player. Players like Sterling, Koulibaly and Cucurella I expect more from quicker, while the likes of Madeuke and Mudryk are going to have a slightly longer leash because of where they are in their careers. 

I'd like to see signs of encouragement and progression across the board however.

[RDCW]

15 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Maybe the next Matic if he can stand in the right place 😀

So when would you expect the see the fruits of the clubs investments over the past two transfer windows, the coming season, or the one after?

You little tinker, ROTG, constantly stirring the pot, sharpening your knives, peddling your alternative philosophies! Don't ever change! You are perfectly well aware of course that the improvement curve is a continuum and that we can reasonably expect some immediate improvement, building to a crescendo of confidence, cohesion and credibility over the coming 2 seasons.........unless we believe (as you do) that all the recent signings are symbolic of CFC standing in the playground with our underwear around our ankles.

[FrankLampard8]

22 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Just looking at players from the relegated clubs who might be worth looking at.  Any thoughts on these? No surprise that not one Leeds player makes my list (though Patrick Bamford is an "almost" if he weren't so injury prone... seems to have a better idea of where the net is than most of our guys!). We're already linked to Lavia, having tried to sign him last summer.

James Ward-Prowse
Roméo Lavia

James Maddison
Youri Tielemens
Wilfred Ndidi
 

For me, Lavia is interesting. Other than that, the only one i'd even consider is Maddison if Mount is leaving and Harvey Barnes. 

[xceleryx]

13 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

For me, Lavia is interesting. Other than that, the only one i'd even consider is Maddison if Mount is leaving and Harvey Barnes. 

Kyle Walker-Peters from Southampton would be interesting also, ability to play both fullback positions could be handy given the injury concerns over Chilwell and RJ. May be worth carrying an extra option even with the less games. 

 

[Bob Singleton]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

[SNIP] 

He is for me. If he had no release clause Sporting would no doubt demand more than the £52m release clause, and he's going to be around half the cost of either Caicedo or Rice. 

While I like the other two I do believe Ugarte is better business and more of that grittier defensive player we need. 

That's an important point many are missing. Caicedo recently signed a new contract at Brighton, not because he was intending to stay long-term but because the club wanted to retain his value. According to most transfer gossip, they'll be looking for around £80-£90 million for him. We know West Ham want £100m+ for Rice.

[paulw66]

22 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

James Ward-Prowse
Roméo Lavia

James Maddison
Youri Tielemens
Wilfred Ndidi
 

Lavia is one we are linked with but can't say I have seen much of him, other than gifting Liverpool a goal on Sunday.

JWP, set pieces aside, I dont think is much good.

Maddison could be a Mount replacement.

Tielemens, from what I have seen is an absolute liability out of possession. 

Ndidi, not sure is that good.

Barnes is the one I would take all day from Leicester. 

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

That's an important point many are missing. Caicedo recently signed a new contract at Brighton, not because he was intending to stay long-term but because the club wanted to retain his value. According to most transfer gossip, they'll be looking for around £80-£90 million for him. We know West Ham want £100m+ for Rice.

The question then becomes whether or not "Premier League experience" is worth the extra £50m or so. 

Ugarte for £52m is just too good to walk away from IMO - at least based on what I've seen of him, in particular his performances vs both Man City and Juve. 

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Lavia is one we are linked with but can't say I have seen much of him, other than gifting Liverpool a goal on Sunday.

JWP, set pieces aside, I dont think is much good.

Maddison could be a Mount replacement.

Tielemens, from what I have seen is an absolute liability out of possession. 

Ndidi, not sure is that good.

Barnes is the one I would take all day from Leicester. 

Lavia looks promising but is hella raw IMO. In saying that, we do need two DM types in the squad so we aren't having to "make do" when one is out. Having a more suitable alternative helps keep balance and some semblance of cohesion. 

Maddison I like but not too sure where he'd play really, would only make sense if we sold both Mount and Havertz considering Nkunku's best position is just off a CF. 

Agree on Harvey Barnes, could be a handy pickup and gives us four proper wide options to rotate between.

[ROTG]

40 minutes ago, RDCW said:

You little tinker, ROTG, constantly stirring the pot, sharpening your knives, peddling your alternative philosophies! Don't ever change! You are perfectly well aware of course that the improvement curve is a continuum and that we can reasonably expect some immediate improvement, building to a crescendo of confidence, cohesion and credibility over the coming 2 seasons..

It would be fairly boring on here if we all agreed - At lest it in good humour and not personal "With the only Exception being Bob S personal attacks which are usually on a Sunday after he had a few sherries with Mavis & Emily down the Rovers 😀"

44 minutes ago, RDCW said:

.unless we believe (as you do) that all the recent signings are symbolic of CFC standing in the playground with our underwear around our ankles.

One can only hope the recruitment department the club purchased from Brighton, preforms better than the nobody coach the club purchased from Brighton "Oops being a little tinker again 😀"

[ROTG]

13 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Lavia is one we are linked with but can't say I have seen much of him, other than gifting Liverpool a goal on Sunday.

JWP, set pieces aside, I dont think is much good.

Maddison could be a Mount replacement.

Tielemens, from what I have seen is an absolute liability out of possession. 

Ndidi, not sure is that good.

 

100% agree,

Can't believe anyone would suggest buying players from relegated clubs, it obvious they are not Chelsea standards even as a squad player.

[xceleryx]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

100% agree,

Can't believe anyone would suggest buying players from relegated clubs, it obvious they are not Chelsea standards even as a squad player.

Says the one who wanted us to sign Mee and Tarkowski after their relegation. 😅

[Bert19]

38 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Lavia looks promising but is hella raw IMO. In saying that, we do need two DM types in the squad so we aren't having to "make do" when one is out. Having a more suitable alternative helps keep balance and some semblance of cohesion. 

Maddison I like but not too sure where he'd play really, would only make sense if we sold both Mount and Havertz considering Nkunku's best position is just off a CF. 

Agree on Harvey Barnes, could be a handy pickup and gives us four proper wide options to rotate between.

I'd take Lavia if it's a sensible price.  He looks very much like he could come on leaps and bounds in an environment with good coaching, a proper structure and better players.  

Barnes i'd also take - I agree with your points and would also add in that he scores goals.  Something we really, really, Really need to add!

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Says the one who wanted us to sign Mee and Tarkowski after their relegation. 😅

100% Correct

only difference being they were being given away by Burnley and would have been happy to bench warn, which is probably the exact opposite for the little cherubs being mention on this forum