Transfer Talk Topic

[Rob B]

3 hours ago, Morgs said:

We'll easily make what we paid for Angelo, Ugochukwu and Casadei back if we sold them this summer, I reckon. Likely we'd make a profit on Big Les. We also made a tidy profit on Omari Hutchinson and will make a very nice profit on Alex Matos if he goes as well. I would be amazed if Leicester give us less than we paid for DDF. 

The only one of the speculative buys that's really not done well and will lose us money is probably Slonina and Moreira as they simply haven't made the jump upwards. Too early to put Washington in that bracket but he might end up there yet, we'll see. 

 

Not sure I necessarily share this view. 

We paid something like £24m for Ugochukwu and he has less than 300 minutes for us in the premier league.   Washington and Angelo were roughly £15m each and haven’t played competitively for us yet and then you’re got another c. €60m or so on Slonina, Fofana, Casadei and Santos, all of whom fall into pretty much the same category. 

That’s £100m outlay on players that are not only nowhere near our first team, but weren’t exactly tearing it up elsewhere (maybe Santos aside who I think was decent for Strasbourg) or haven’t had very little (known) interest in them so far this window.

And this is before the likes of Petrovic, Chukwuemeka, Sanchez etc. 

This whole player trading model is one of my biggest bug bears with this new ownership.  We are selling off genuinely decent academy lads for these gambles.  You’d have been better off keeping your powder dry and going big on Olise and Osimhem (for example) and making a real go of top four. 

[Ham]

I like how TBSD critics post the fee including add-ons for a Chelsea signing but the fee minus add-ons for the likes of Alvarez. 

 

 

[asvaberg]

22 minutes ago, Ham said:

I like how TBSD critics post the fee including add-ons for a Chelsea signing but the fee minus add-ons for the likes of Alvarez. 

 

 

"Creative accounting" 😆

[Chelsea_Matt]

52 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Not sure I necessarily share this view. 

We paid something like £24m for Ugochukwu and he has less than 300 minutes for us in the premier league.   Washington and Angelo were roughly £15m each and haven’t played competitively for us yet and then you’re got another c. €60m or so on Slonina, Fofana, Casadei and Santos, all of whom fall into pretty much the same category. 

That’s £100m outlay on players that are not only nowhere near our first team, but weren’t exactly tearing it up elsewhere (maybe Santos aside who I think was decent for Strasbourg) or haven’t had very little (known) interest in them so far this window.

And this is before the likes of Petrovic, Chukwuemeka, Sanchez etc. 

This whole player trading model is one of my biggest bug bears with this new ownership.  We are selling off genuinely decent academy lads for these gambles.  You’d have been better off keeping your powder dry and going big on Olise and Osimhem (for example) and making a real go of top four. 

It also seems so scattergun in its nature. For me I just wish they’d stop spending in the same way I’d take away a senile relative’s car keys. 😬🙈💀

[Rick1977]

Surly we need to have a manageable say 25 players of quality? 

[DannyLB]

21 minutes ago, Rick1977 said:

Surly we need to have a manageable say 25 players of quality? 

26 players selected, 27 with the addition of a new striker. Four competitions in the upcoming season coming from a horrific injury season.  It’s nice to have options. 

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, Rob B said:

Not sure I necessarily share this view. 

We paid something like £24m for Ugochukwu and he has less than 300 minutes for us in the premier league.   Washington and Angelo were roughly £15m each and haven’t played competitively for us yet and then you’re got another c. €60m or so on Slonina, Fofana, Casadei and Santos, all of whom fall into pretty much the same category. 

That’s £100m outlay on players that are not only nowhere near our first team, but weren’t exactly tearing it up elsewhere (maybe Santos aside who I think was decent for Strasbourg) or haven’t had very little (known) interest in them so far this window.

And this is before the likes of Petrovic, Chukwuemeka, Sanchez etc. 

This whole player trading model is one of my biggest bug bears with this new ownership.  We are selling off genuinely decent academy lads for these gambles.  You’d have been better off keeping your powder dry and going big on Olise and Osimhem (for example) and making a real go of top four. 

Pretty sure this may have been brought up a few weeks ago on here, but the nature of "profit" in football isn't solely based around buying x player for say £10m and then hoping to sell them for £20m or more later on. There's just as much focus, if not more in this day and age, about creating book profit to allow continued spending in years to come. 

Using Ugochukwu as an example, as he was mentioned above, he was signed for £24m and on around £45k per week according to the internets across a 7 year deal. So you take the fee paid, plus wages,  spread it out over the duration of the contract and you get the yearly maintenance cost. In this example we're looking at £3.4m for the fee and around £2m a year in wages. Leaving us looking at Ugo roughly costing around £5.5m per year to have. 

In some cases we're going to loan these players out which will generally mean wages being fully or partially covered by the loaning team, with the addition of a loan fee for the move itself. This essentially diverts some of the year maintenance cost to the loaning club. 

Do this for 2-3 years and the remaining on book cost reduces as the players contract shortens, we've potentially diverted costs in that period, and then to generate profit from a book perspective all we're needing to do is sell for more then the remaining on book cost the player holds. 

This is why we're signing so many young players that are fairly cost controlled for the most part. If they explode in that 2-3 year period they've got a chance of making it here, if not we then sell them to cover the remaining book value held and anything beyond that is profit that can then be put back into more spending.

Now there's obviously an argument to be had on whether this is the best use of resources or not, which his entirely reasonable, but when you look at the fees players go for these days after 6 months of good football, the shrinking pool of elite world class players, and the amount of other clubs that have money to spend, putting £100m into one or two established players on huge wages isn't necessarily a better use of resources either. We've seen how that's faired on several occasions with the likes of Lukaku, Shevchenko, Bakayoko, Torres, Veron, Kepa, etc. Then spending the next however many years trying to offload their huge contracts.

[Mark Kelly]

Pre-season whilst essentially a getting fit exercise has shown me we need at least one commanding senior centre half and a centre forward .  It's also shown that Winstanley and Stewart are not watching the players we are signing and solely going by statistics.

They bought a new keeper where all the evidence is available on YouTube of the kind of mistakes he makes and low and behold he made those mistakes in his very first game . 

[east lower]

40 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Pre-season whilst essentially a getting fit exercise has shown me we need at least one commanding senior centre half and a centre forward .  It's also shown that Winstanley and Stewart are not watching the players we are signing and solely going by statistics.

They bought a new keeper where all the evidence is available on YouTube of the kind of mistakes he makes and low and behold he made those mistakes in his very first game . 

I'm pretty sure the odd scout or two will be getting significantly richer, as will primary and secondary agents. As well as a couple of other people too, probably.

Charlatans, the pair of them.

[Morgs]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Pre-season whilst essentially a getting fit exercise has shown me we need at least one commanding senior centre half and a centre forward .  It's also shown that Winstanley and Stewart are not watching the players we are signing and solely going by statistics.

They bought a new keeper where all the evidence is available on YouTube of the kind of mistakes he makes and low and behold he made those mistakes in his very first game . 

I didn't watch it - did Jorgensen play? Were we any good?

[Mark Kelly]

32 minutes ago, Morgs said:

I didn't watch it - did Jorgensen play? Were we any good?

As per usual we weren't as bad as some would make out , the high line killed us again and Maresca went mad about it , Jorgensen played and flapped about on the floor like a performing seal for the second goal .  The defence was all over the place and Badiashile calmly watched whilst they passed into the goal a foot in front of him like his brain had a five second delay like they have on the radio to stop swearing being broadcast . 

I am worried about Reece James . 

Edited August 7 by Mark Kelly

[Morgs]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

As per usual we weren't as bad as some would make out , the high line killed us again and Maresca went mad about it , Jorgensen played and flapped about on the floor like a performing seal for the second goal .  The defence was all over the place and Badiashile calmly watched whilst they passed into the goal a foot in front of him like his brain had a five second delay like they have on the radio to stop swearing being broadcast . 

I am worried about Reece James . 

the club sees all these things and thinks " we definitely need more strikers." 

[ROTG]

12 hours ago, Ham said:

I like how TBSD critics post the fee including add-ons for a Chelsea signing but the fee minus add-ons for the likes of Alvarez. 

 

 

You are spot on Ham - Yep posters need to quote TBSD fees without the add-ons, as one assumes the add-ons are performance and CL qualification based, there is not a chance in hell a majority of the signings will ever meet those add-on bonuses.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Morgs said:

the club sees all these things and thinks " we definitely need more strikers." 

In fairness we could quite easily have won / drawn with better ones despite the frailties at the back on show 

[Morgs]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

In fairness we could quite easily have won / drawn with better ones despite the frailties at the back on show 

"Vindaloooooooooo WE'RE GONNA SCORE!!!!! ONE!!! MORE!!! THAN!!! YOU!!!"

 

[Floyd25]

10 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

The defence was all over the place and Badiashile calmly watched whilst they passed into the goal a foot in front of him like his brain had a five second delay like they have on the radio to stop swearing being broadcast . 

Just watched the goal back and I’m really confused as to why Badiashile just nonchalantly jogged back and didn’t even bother sliding to clear the ball, I really don’t get him as a player. 

[chara]

12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Pre-season whilst essentially a getting fit exercise has shown me we need at least one commanding senior centre half and a centre forward .  It's also shown that Winstanley and Stewart are not watching the players we are signing and solely going by statistics.

They bought a new keeper where all the evidence is available on YouTube of the kind of mistakes he makes and low and behold he made those mistakes in his very first game . 

@Mark Kelly,,Mark,,did you read my post re the new keeper and my take on the two goals ?

Probably a bit unfair to make an early judgement over such  short game exposure but I don't see any real spark or significant upgrade on Petr.

 

[Morgs]

Maybe time for a bit of positivity as this has been lacking from me lately. 

Looking at the way Omorodion plays, he is a huge great lump of a targetman. Holds the ball up, is a focal point up top for all those crosses and is great in the air. He's big, strong, aggressive and can move the defenders wide with his movement. This done properly will be a major boon for the squad, even if I have my doubts whether Samu is mature or technically good enough for the Prem. IF (and this is a big if) he is, then we may have a player on our hands. He's a proper target man, so is Guiu so you can see what the club want to do. Guiu and Samu are interchangeable. If you watch them both play they are remarkably similar. 

We've been crying out for someone to hold the ball up and provide a focal point up top and Samu and Guiu both have very similar styles to do exactly that. Unusually for Chelsea, they were bought as specialised units: they cannot really do anything else.  They embody the need to have a plan B. Ie: when the other team are camped in their own half with everyone behind the ball kicking lumps out of us and doubling or tripling up on any of our attacking players the moment they get the ball, then knocking it long is a plan B solution we've lacked for so long. Both are decent on the deck as well so plan A also suits if you can get them the ball. Part of Jackson';s travails last season were I think due to the fact that he isn't a target man and we were trying to play as if he was one. That he will see more of the ball and have more space to run into down that left side will I think be of major benefit for him and I have a feeling he will have a wonderful season because of this. 

So I think what we are seeing is a move for Jackson to play as second striker if we go two up top, or to play wide right and cut inside. Nkunku will play at 10 behind the striker(s) and Palmer will either play at 10 if Nkunku isn't fit, or wide left if he is. 

Then you have a front four with some serious firepower there. Jackson, Omorodion, Nkunku, Palmer. You'd have to think there are goals there, via plan A or plan B. 

You also have Mudryk or Tyrique George to come in on the left, Sterling or Madueke to come in on the right. Chukwuemeka to come in behind the strikers as well. There is real strength in depth there but the thing that strikes me is that everyone has a set role - the club knows how it wants Maresca to play, or rather Maresca has told them that's how he wants to play.  

The trick then is to be able to distribute the ball quickly through the channels or down the flanks, quick enough to beat the press, but also be able to knock it long if we need to. You can see why the wingbacks are so important to the way the team is set up to play now. Reece James will be looking at Guiu and Omorodion and feeling positive about being able to beat his man down the right and knock in pinpoint crosses. Another one who will benefit from this is Nkunku as he thrives on those little knockdowns that you get when you have a huge target man up top. 

If you think about it, there really aren't any elite level target men around. It isn't like in the 90s when you had a plethora of world class 6"2 - 6"4 physical target men in the Boksic, Vieri, Ravanelli sort of mold to flash big bucks at to get a world class front man for your team. Such players are vanishingly rare these days. So if you cannot buy ready made world class targetman you have to buy potential and that is what Samu and Guiu are about. One or both may end up being world class, or they may not, but they have all the gifts that is for sure. I also happen to think that assuming Lukaku, because of his size, is a target man up top was one of the reasons it never worked at Chelsea because he actually isn't that player, everyone just assumes he is. 

Both Guiu and Samu are also quality technically and can play a bit with the ball at their feet as well so it isn't all Wimbledon Crazy Gang stuff. Broja SHOULD have been the target man for us but simply doesnt have the attitude, work rate or quality on the ball to make it work I don't think, so unless he can convince Maresca otherwise, he will go to make way for the new guys who are target men, plain and simple. 

Maresca's challenge is to have a midfield that can hold onto the ball and dictate the play to feed these target men, and have a defense that can help them do that by pushing up without conceding too many goals.  An awful lot rests on Caicedo and Lavia's shoulders. 

I have a feeling we will see a huge number of goals at Chelsea this season - we'll concede loads but we will also score loads. 

Edited August 7 by Morgs

[Ham]

23 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Maybe time for a bit of positivity as this has been lacking from me lately. 

Looking at the way Omorodion plays, he is a huge great lump of a targetman. Holds the ball up, is a focal point up top for all those crosses and is great in the air. He's big, strong, aggressive and can move the defenders wide with his movement. This done properly will be a major boon for the squad, even if I have my doubts whether Samu is mature or technically good enough for the Prem. IF (and this is a big if) he is, then we may have a player on our hands. He's a proper target man, so is Guiu so you can see what the club want to do. Guiu and Samu are interchangeable. If you watch them both play they are remarkably similar. 

We've been crying out for someone to hold the ball up and provide a focal point up top and Samu and Guiu both have very similar styles to do exactly that. Unusually for Chelsea, they were bought as specialised units: they cannot really do anything else.  They embody the need to have a plan B. Ie: when the other team are camped in their own half with everyone behind the ball kicking lumps out of us and doubling or tripling up on any of our attacking players the moment they get the ball, then knocking it long is a plan B solution we've lacked for so long. Both are decent on the deck as well so plan A also suits if you can get them the ball. Part of Jackson';s travails last season were I think due to the fact that he isn't a target man and we were trying to play as if he was one. That he will see more of the ball and have more space to run into down that left side will I think be of major benefit for him and I have a feeling he will have a wonderful season because of this. 

So I think what we are seeing is a move for Jackson to play as second striker if we go two up top, or to play wide right and cut inside. Nkunku will play at 10 behind the striker(s) and Palmer will either play at 10 if Nkunku isn't fit, or wide left if he is. 

Then you have a front four with some serious firepower there. Jackson, Omorodion, Nkunku, Palmer. You'd have to think there are goals there, via plan A or plan B. 

You also have Mudryk or Tyrique George to come in on the left, Sterling or Madueke to come in on the right. Chukwuemeka to come in behind the strikers as well. There is real strength in depth there but the thing that strikes me is that everyone has a set role - the club knows how it wants Maresca to play, or rather Maresca has told them that's how he wants to play.  

The trick then is to be able to distribute the ball quickly through the channels or down the flanks, quick enough to beat the press, but also be able to knock it long if we need to. You can see why the wingbacks are so important to the way the team is set up to play now. Reece James will be looking at Guiu and Omorodion and feeling positive about being able to beat his man down the right and knock in pinpoint crosses. Another one who will benefit from this is Nkunku as he thrives on those little knockdowns that you get when you have a huge target man up top. 

If you think about it, there really aren't any elite level target men around. It isn't like in the 90s when you had a plethora of world class 6"2 - 6"4 physical target men in the Boksic, Vieri, Ravanelli sort of mold to flash big bucks at to get a world class front man for your team. Such players are vanishingly rare these days. So if you cannot buy ready made world class targetman you have to buy potential and that is what Samu and Guiu are about. One or both may end up being world class, or they may not, but they have all the gifts that is for sure. I also happen to think that assuming Lukaku, because of his size, is a target man up top was one of the reasons it never worked at Chelsea because he actually isn't that player, everyone just assumes he is. 

Both Guiu and Samu are also quality technically and can play a bit with the ball at their feet as well so it isn't all Wimbledon Crazy Gang stuff. Broja SHOULD have been the target man for us but simply doesnt have the attitude, work rate or quality on the ball to make it work I don't think, so unless he can convince Maresca otherwise, he will go to make way for the new guys who are target men, plain and simple. 

Maresca's challenge is to have a midfield that can hold onto the ball and dictate the play to feed these target men, and have a defense that can help them do that by pushing up without conceding too many goals.  An awful lot rests on Caicedo and Lavia's shoulders. 

I have a feeling we will see a huge number of goals at Chelsea this season - we'll concede loads but we will also score loads. 

Good post. The only change I'd make is Jackson on the left and Palmer on the right. 

[Blue Kratos]

51 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Maybe time for a bit of positivity as this has been lacking from me lately. 

Looking at the way Omorodion plays, he is a huge great lump of a targetman. Holds the ball up, is a focal point up top for all those crosses and is great in the air. He's big, strong, aggressive and can move the defenders wide with his movement. This done properly will be a major boon for the squad, even if I have my doubts whether Samu is mature or technically good enough for the Prem. IF (and this is a big if) he is, then we may have a player on our hands. He's a proper target man, so is Guiu so you can see what the club want to do. Guiu and Samu are interchangeable. If you watch them both play they are remarkably similar. 

We've been crying out for someone to hold the ball up and provide a focal point up top and Samu and Guiu both have very similar styles to do exactly that. Unusually for Chelsea, they were bought as specialised units: they cannot really do anything else.  They embody the need to have a plan B. Ie: when the other team are camped in their own half with everyone behind the ball kicking lumps out of us and doubling or tripling up on any of our attacking players the moment they get the ball, then knocking it long is a plan B solution we've lacked for so long. Both are decent on the deck as well so plan A also suits if you can get them the ball. Part of Jackson';s travails last season were I think due to the fact that he isn't a target man and we were trying to play as if he was one. That he will see more of the ball and have more space to run into down that left side will I think be of major benefit for him and I have a feeling he will have a wonderful season because of this. 

So I think what we are seeing is a move for Jackson to play as second striker if we go two up top, or to play wide right and cut inside. Nkunku will play at 10 behind the striker(s) and Palmer will either play at 10 if Nkunku isn't fit, or wide left if he is. 

Then you have a front four with some serious firepower there. Jackson, Omorodion, Nkunku, Palmer. You'd have to think there are goals there, via plan A or plan B. 

You also have Mudryk or Tyrique George to come in on the left, Sterling or Madueke to come in on the right. Chukwuemeka to come in behind the strikers as well. There is real strength in depth there but the thing that strikes me is that everyone has a set role - the club knows how it wants Maresca to play, or rather Maresca has told them that's how he wants to play.  

The trick then is to be able to distribute the ball quickly through the channels or down the flanks, quick enough to beat the press, but also be able to knock it long if we need to. You can see why the wingbacks are so important to the way the team is set up to play now. Reece James will be looking at Guiu and Omorodion and feeling positive about being able to beat his man down the right and knock in pinpoint crosses. Another one who will benefit from this is Nkunku as he thrives on those little knockdowns that you get when you have a huge target man up top. 

If you think about it, there really aren't any elite level target men around. It isn't like in the 90s when you had a plethora of world class 6"2 - 6"4 physical target men in the Boksic, Vieri, Ravanelli sort of mold to flash big bucks at to get a world class front man for your team. Such players are vanishingly rare these days. So if you cannot buy ready made world class targetman you have to buy potential and that is what Samu and Guiu are about. One or both may end up being world class, or they may not, but they have all the gifts that is for sure. I also happen to think that assuming Lukaku, because of his size, is a target man up top was one of the reasons it never worked at Chelsea because he actually isn't that player, everyone just assumes he is. 

Both Guiu and Samu are also quality technically and can play a bit with the ball at their feet as well so it isn't all Wimbledon Crazy Gang stuff. Broja SHOULD have been the target man for us but simply doesnt have the attitude, work rate or quality on the ball to make it work I don't think, so unless he can convince Maresca otherwise, he will go to make way for the new guys who are target men, plain and simple. 

Maresca's challenge is to have a midfield that can hold onto the ball and dictate the play to feed these target men, and have a defense that can help them do that by pushing up without conceding too many goals.  An awful lot rests on Caicedo and Lavia's shoulders. 

I have a feeling we will see a huge number of goals at Chelsea this season - we'll concede loads but we will also score loads. 

Morgs I bloody love you mate.

(I step away from the ledge)

[Original 21]

[martin1905]

10 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Won't pretend I've ever watched him so can't comment on him, although it appears most have passed judgement on him without ever seeing him play.

I've said all summer we clearly need another number 9 but in my opinion one that competes with Jackson and doesn't hinder his progress. There aren't many elite strikers in the game and none that we could realistically sign. Jackson could just go onto become one so pleased we haven't gone mad on someone that cost silly money but got someone that will hopefully provide much needed competition and,.hopefully offer something different. 

[ROTG]

6 hours ago, Original 21 said:

more creative accounting by the bean counters - Sell  Gallagher for 35m, then by a player from the same club and spread the cost over 5 years (7m per year). therefore the club are in profit of 28m from the Gallagher sale. 

[bertles86]

Rather detailed write up of the lad here:

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/19/chelsea-transfer-target-samu-omorodion-everything-need-know-21062003/

 

I like the sound of strong and fast, finishes with both feet. Sounds not dissimilar to DD. 

[ROTG]

2 minutes ago, bertles86 said:

Rather detailed write up of the lad here:

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/19/chelsea-transfer-target-samu-omorodion-everything-need-know-21062003/

 

I like the sound of strong and fast, finishes with both feet. Sounds not dissimilar to DD. 

Or DDF 😀