Transfer Talk Topic

[NoblyBobly]

Back on topic. This game against Servette. I think we are going to wipe the floor with them. 

[asvaberg]

7 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Back on topic. This game against Servette. I think we are going to wipe the floor with them. 

Agree. 6-0 😁

[JaneB]

10 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Back on topic. This game against Servette. I think we are going to wipe the floor with them. 

 

1 minute ago, asvaberg said:

Agree. 6-0 😁

You’re not back on topic, this is Transfer Talk🙄

[NoblyBobly]

13 minutes ago, JaneB said:

 

You’re not back on topic, this is Transfer Talk🙄

Ok. So with all our new players we will wipe the floor with Servette 😉

[JaneB]

8 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Ok. So with all our new players we will wipe the floor with Servette 😉

Clever clogs 

[Max Fowler]

Have to say it kind of hurts United getting Ugarte, as well as De Ligt, two players I think would make a huge difference to us this window, and nearly joined us in recent years.

IMO United have done a better job than us in terms of incomings this window, and only a statement signing like Osimhen would threaten to change that equation. Only Ten Hag who looks ropey threatens United IMO being favourites now for the CL places ahead of us, partly because they have no Europe, but also because they've signed the top level experience/character/leadership/mental attribute players that we completely lack - and addressed some key areas on the football pitch that we have not.

The board has a total blind spot on this IMO. They seem to think winning the league is about signing enough Tiki Taka players to fit in with our model and Maresca's style, but we will get found out when the going gets tough.

At that point, we will miss Thiago Silva and Gallagher and no amount of Joao Felixes or Jadon Sanchos will help.

 

[Sleeping Dave]

So much uncertainty still. We look dodgy at the back, beggars belief we rather spend €80m on a Fofana who can’t defend than let our own boy Chalobah state his claim. 

Sterling and Chilwell still to be confirmed. Ditto Kepa and Lukaku. Not to mention we still need to find clubs to a long list of players who are still “with us”. 

Anyone want to make a round of bets on how many players will still be here come end of transfer window, 

[thevelourfog]

14 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Have to say it kind of hurts United getting Ugarte, as well as De Ligt, two players I think would make a huge difference to us this window, and nearly joined us in recent years.

IMO United have done a better job than us in terms of incomings this window, and only a statement signing like Osimhen would threaten to change that equation. Only Ten Hag who looks ropey threatens United IMO being favourites now for the CL places ahead of us, partly because they have no Europe, but also because they've signed the top level experience/character/leadership/mental attribute players that we completely lack - and addressed some key areas on the football pitch that we have not.

The board has a total blind spot on this IMO. They seem to think winning the league is about signing enough Tiki Taka players to fit in with our model and Maresca's style, but we will get found out when the going gets tough.

At that point, we will miss Thiago Silva and Gallagher and no amount of Joao Felixes or Jadon Sanchos will help.

 

United have essentially signed a load of cast offs who other clubs wanted shot off almost as soon as they arrived. I can't comment on any of those players really, don't watch French or German football, but just as an exercise in framing it is really easy to position United as having had a disastrous window.

Edited August 28 by thevelourfog

[Sleeping Dave]

17 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

United have essentially signed a load of cast offs who other clubs wanted shot off almost as soon as they arrived. I can't comment on any of those players really, don't watch French or German football, but just as an exercise in framing it is really easy to position United as having had a disastrous window.

De Ligt is a curious case. For every club he leaves he gets a little bit cheaper. Gone from one of the biggest CB prospects in the world to someone who doesn’t quite manage to settle anywhere 

[Max Fowler]

16 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

United have essentially signed a load of cast offs who other clubs wanted shot off almost as soon as they arrived. I can't comment on any of those players really, don't watch French or German football, but just as an exercise in framing it is really easy to position United as having had a disastrous window.

Why undergo an exercise in framing? Just state facts. 

De Ligt played 16 of 22 league games he was fit last season, could have joined PSG or Barca but joined United because of Ten Hag.

Ugarte started 21 league games last season, 37 appearances overall, was in Copa America team of the tournament.

Mazraoui was clearly Bayern's first choice right back but injured for 3 months (you could argue injury prone, but IMO "cast off" is a bit of a lazy comment without evidence)

Meanwhile we have signed an actual cast off in Felix, who Simeone couldn't wait to get rid of.

[Max Fowler]

17 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

De Ligt is a curious case. For every club he leaves he gets a little bit cheaper. Gone from one of the biggest CB prospects in the world to someone who doesn’t quite manage to settle anywhere 

Again, I am not sure you are seeing it right - many Bayern fans are fuming De Ligt was sold (petition was rasied with over 70,000 signatures)

Bayern, one of the only clubs in as big a mess as us over recent seasons, have been criticised heavily for selling De Ligt who was a star at Juve (didn't manage to settle - what?)

Here's Bayern legend Matthaus:

‘The defence is and remains Bayern’s Achilles heel,’ Matthaus told Sky Germany. ‘Matthijs de Ligt was sold, even though he was the most stable defender over the past two years. He was the leader of the backline.

‘Now Bayern are again looking for a successor to David Alaba. For me, it’s pathetic that this leader is missing. After all, we are talking about FC Bayern. 

‘If De Ligt had not been sold, I would not have worries at FC Bayern now. But my opinion about him is probably different to the people in charge. It’s a decision that has to be accepted. But many – including within the team – are just shaking their heads. Because the players also know that their defence is shaky. And then the best defender for many is sold.’

Could it be that United got a good deal for De Ligt and Bayern sold him too cheap when they shouldn't have even sold him at all?

 

 

Edited August 28 by Max Fowler

[chara]

1 hour ago, NoblyBobly said:

If it wasn’t for Venetian blinds it would be curtains for all of us. 

You Doge ..looks like a casement for the Mods!

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Again, I am not sure you are seeing it right - many Bayern fans are fuming De Ligt was sold (petition was rasied with over 70,000 signatures)

Bayern, one of the only clubs in as big a mess as us over recent seasons, have been criticised heavily for selling De Ligt who was a star at Juve (didn't manage to settle - what?)

Here's Bayern legend Matthaus:

‘The defence is and remains Bayern’s Achilles heel,’ Matthaus told Sky Germany. ‘Matthijs de Ligt was sold, even though he was the most stable defender over the past two years. He was the leader of the backline.

‘Now Bayern are again looking for a successor to David Alaba. For me, it’s pathetic that this leader is missing. After all, we are talking about FC Bayern. 

‘If De Ligt had not been sold, I would not have worries at FC Bayern now. But my opinion about him is probably different to the people in charge. It’s a decision that has to be accepted. But many – including within the team – are just shaking their heads. Because the players also know that their defence is shaky. And then the best defender for many is sold.’

Could it be that United got a good deal for De Ligt and Bayern sold him too cheap when they shouldn't have even sold him at all?

 

 

There’s no doubting the potential he had. I’m merely pointing out that he hasn’t fulfilled it. Had he done so, Bayern wouldn’t have got him for less than Juve paid, and Man U sure as hell wouldn’t have got him for less than Bayern paid. 

Ajax -> Juve €85.5m

Juve -> Bayern €67m

Bayern -> Man U €45m

The story is all in his transfer fees. You can dress it up all you want, but one of the best CBs in world football at the age of 21-25 doesn’t have that transfer fee development. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

There’s no doubting the potential he had. I’m merely pointing out that he hasn’t fulfilled it. Had he done so, Bayern wouldn’t have got him for less than Juve paid, and Man U sure as hell wouldn’t have got him for less than Bayern paid. 

Ajax -> Juve €85.5m

Juve -> Bayern €67m

Bayern -> Man U €45m

The story is all in his transfer fees. You can dress it up all you want, but one of the best CBs in world football at the age of 21-25 doesn’t have that transfer fee development. 

Contract lengths at sale? I don’t know - just asking

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Why undergo an exercise in framing? Just state facts. 

De Ligt played 16 of 22 league games he was fit last season, could have joined PSG or Barca but joined United because of Ten Hag.

Ugarte started 21 league games last season, 37 appearances overall, was in Copa America team of the tournament.

Mazraoui was clearly Bayern's first choice right back but injured for 3 months (you could argue injury prone, but IMO "cast off" is a bit of a lazy comment without evidence)

Meanwhile we have signed an actual cast off in Felix, who Simeone couldn't wait to get rid of.

Are Felix's 44 starts for a CL club (1 goal every 3 appearances in that competition btw) not not "facts"? I'm not sure how you get around these clubs actively wanting to sell these players, but I'm sure you'll have some opinion you can frame as a fact to manage it.

I'd not be accusing people of being lazy if I were you.

Edit: see in a subsequent post you're wheeling out the selective canvassing of Bayern supporter's opinions, so may as well chuck in that every United fan I know thinks they've bought terribly this summer.

Edited August 28 by thevelourfog

[Rob B]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Have to say it kind of hurts United getting Ugarte, as well as De Ligt, two players I think would make a huge difference to us this window, and nearly joined us in recent years.

IMO United have done a better job than us in terms of incomings this window, and only a statement signing like Osimhen would threaten to change that equation.

I really don’t see it with those two players if I’m being honest.  Ugarte is quite small for a non-technical DM, lacks pace and physicality but will add some aggression / bite  and some much needed rotation with Casemiro.

De Ligt I just think was overhyped at Ajax and is a good player just not a great one.  Ironically reminds me of Harry Maguire who is nowhere near as bad as people make out, but again not world class.    Yoro looks a good prospect albeit he is out for 3 months and Mazrouri / Zirkzee I don’t know but have both made decent starts, plus they have Mount back who will be like a new signing. 

We on the other hand, could potentially have Lavia, James and Nkunku to reinforce the squad before we even begin.  This is massive even if our signings have been a bit underwhelming.  For the record I like Neto and Felix, but think KDH, Tosin and Jorgensen are a bit meh. 

All in all, I think if the window closed today I’d still fancy us to finish above them.  If we sign Osimhen or Toney then we would be strong favourites to. 

[Max Fowler]

3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Are Felix's 44 starts for a CL club (1 goal every 3 appearances in that competition btw) not not "facts"? I'm not sure how you get around these clubs actively wanting to sell these players, but I'm sure you'll have some opinion you can frame as a fact to manage it.

I'd not be accusing people of being lazy if I were you.

Edit: see in a subsequent post you're wheeling out the selective canvassing of Bayern supporter's opinions, so may as well chuck in that every United fan I know thinks they've bought terribly this summer.

Just for the record, I didn't call anyone lazy, I called the comment lazy. 
As in, an oversimplified / assumptive argument.

Plenty of United fans including some of my friends think they have had a great window, so we must have different information.

[Max Fowler]

26 minutes ago, Rob B said:

I really don’t see it with those two players if I’m being honest.  Ugarte is quite small for a non-technical DM, lacks pace and physicality but will add some aggression / bite  and some much needed rotation with Casemiro.

De Ligt I just think was overhyped at Ajax and is a good player just not a great one.  Ironically reminds me of Harry Maguire who is nowhere near as bad as people make out, but again not world class.    Yoro looks a good prospect albeit he is out for 3 months and Mazrouri / Zirkzee I don’t know but have both made decent starts, plus they have Mount back who will be like a new signing. 

We on the other hand, could potentially have Lavia, James and Nkunku to reinforce the squad before we even begin.  This is massive even if our signings have been a bit underwhelming.  For the record I like Neto and Felix, but think KDH, Tosin and Jorgensen are a bit meh. 

All in all, I think if the window closed today I’d still fancy us to finish above them.  If we sign Osimhen or Toney then we would be strong favourites to. 

Isn't Caicedo quite small for a "non technical" dm? 

I can agree De Ligt might have been overhyped but its still a great deal for them.

I agree some of the others are more speculative (yoro / zirkzee)

James and Nkunku and perhaps increasingly so Lavia are clearly very injury prone so I don't think we'll have them back for long I am afraid.

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

There’s no doubting the potential he had. I’m merely pointing out that he hasn’t fulfilled it. Had he done so, Bayern wouldn’t have got him for less than Juve paid, and Man U sure as hell wouldn’t have got him for less than Bayern paid. 

Ajax -> Juve €85.5m

Juve -> Bayern €67m

Bayern -> Man U €45m

The story is all in his transfer fees. You can dress it up all you want, but one of the best CBs in world football at the age of 21-25 doesn’t have that transfer fee development. 

Juventus didn't want to sell him to begin with. Was a matter of the side not really being competitive enough, and his contract situation reaching a point where he had two years remaining and it not looking like he'd sign an extension. Was either risk losing him for nothing, a scenario Juventus couldn't afford at the time, or selling and recouping as much as they could - which is what they did.

Bayern sold him because of their financial situation and De Ligt being on massive wages that had him as their highest earner (around €15m a year), coupled with his injury history (dicky knee in particular, with a regular cycle of being fit > injured > playing a few games > injured again). Bayern held, or maybe even still are, the third highest wage bill in football. When fit he was their best defender, he just misses too many games to also justify the sort of money he was earning. 

In a sense he's not "fulfilled his potential" only because he misses too many games. When he does play however, he's generally very good. 

IDK what he's earning at Man Utd (not looked into the media figures), but IF he can stay fit and play on a regular basis while having a contract that's not a complete stitch up, he'll be a good pickup for Man Utd at the sort of price point they've paid and still yet to reach his peak. 

[xceleryx]

Guess that answers that then. If they aren't sold they'll be kicking their heels until January as kinda expected. 

[Thiago97]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Guess that answers that then. If they aren't sold they'll be kicking their heels until January as kinda expected. 

I’m not sure these are the wisest of comments to be honest. If Sterling , Chilwell still end up here after this week. I would hope Maresca does not find himself on the end of a crippling injury crisis in 8 weeks time , and at the point where he needs some experienced quality to step in and fight for him. 
Personally, he could handle these questions a little better in public, and if anything it shows a little bit of a lack of experience.

 

[Max Fowler]

35 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I’m not sure these are the wisest of comments to be honest. If Sterling , Chilwell still end up here after this week. I would hope Maresca does not find himself on the end of a crippling injury crisis in 8 weeks time , and at the point where he needs some experienced quality to step in and fight for him. 
Personally, he could handle these questions a little better in public, and if anything it shows a little bit of a lack of experience.

 

He’s clearly being asked to say this though. He’s clearly been hired in general under the remit that he is tow the party line in press conferences on topics the board wants him to and honestly I think that might have been the main reason Poch got fired

[ChelseaJambo]

40 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I’m not sure these are the wisest of comments to be honest. If Sterling , Chilwell still end up here after this week. I would hope Maresca does not find himself on the end of a crippling injury crisis in 8 weeks time , and at the point where he needs some experienced quality to step in and fight for him. 
Personally, he could handle these questions a little better in public, and if anything it shows a little bit of a lack of experience.

 

 

Yeh, I'm not a fan of that all. Poor discipline etc I'm all for it but there always has to be a way back into the fold.

Why not just say something like "they're solid professionals and it will be up to them to force me to change my mind".

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, ChelseaJambo said:

Yeh, I'm not a fan of that all. Poor discipline etc I'm all for it but there always has to be a way back into the fold.

Why not just say something like "they're solid professionals and it will be up to them to force me to change my mind".

I don’t like it either but it’s..

Because the board told him to. They are clearly taking a collective hard line approach to try and force transfers.

Not sure what will happen if we fail to get any of them through …

The PR is that Sterling doesn’t fit Maresca’s system but I think that’s a nonsense. Suspect maresca would have quite liked him but the club has decided to take sterling off the wage bil 

 

[Thiago97]

14 minutes ago, ChelseaJambo said:

 

Yeh, I'm not a fan of that all. Poor discipline etc I'm all for it but there always has to be a way back into the fold.

Why not just say something like "they're solid professionals and it will be up to them to force me to change my mind".

Agreed. Many different ways he could answer and shut this question down, he doesn’t have to force himself into a corner by being so forthright with his answer. It’s common sense more than anything else.