Transfer Talk Topic

[Floyd25]

Far more gutted with Kante leaving than Mount personally, seven seasons and what a brilliant player in his prime, premier league and champions league winner. Unfortunately the injuries have taken their toll on him and he hasn’t looked the same player, keeps getting injured. For me though, probably one of my favourite ever Chelsea players, maybe I saw a bit of myself in him as a player, if I was actually good at football that is, anyway thanks NG. 

[Bison]

7 hours ago, Original 21 said:

Absolutely love that for Kante. I don't think I've ever been happier for a footballer if this is true. 

Sacrificed his body for this club, won almost everything with us and never really got the appreciation he truly deserves. It's an absolute shame he didn't get a send off but I guess it wasn't meant to be. 

I really wanted him to get a new deal with us but it would be madness on his part to turn down an offer like that. 

1 minute ago, Floyd25 said:

Far more gutted with Kante leaving than Mount personally, seven seasons and what a brilliant player in his prime, premier league and champions league winner. Unfortunately the injuries have taken their toll on him and he hasn’t looked the same player, keeps getting injured. For me though, probably one of my favourite ever Chelsea players, maybe I saw a bit of myself in him as a player, if I was actually good at football that is, anyway thanks NG. 

For sure, Kante leaving is 10000x more sad and depressing for me too than Mount leaving. He is by far one of the greatest players we've ever had.

Mount could leave today and I wouldn't bat an eye lid. 

[kev61]

My heart goes with Kante.Absolutely one of the best midfielders of all time.

To go to a country  that murders people sanctioned at the highest level bothers me.

I doubt Kante has a political bone in his body so I wish him all the best.

 

[kev61]

48 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

Far more gutted with Kante leaving than Mount personally, seven seasons and what a brilliant player in his prime, premier league and champions league winner. Unfortunately the injuries have taken their toll on him and he hasn’t looked the same player, keeps getting injured. For me though, probably one of my favourite ever Chelsea players, maybe I saw a bit of myself in him as a player, if I was actually good at football that is, anyway thanks NG. 

There will be someone saying he was finished at least 2 years ago and doesn't fit into a 'system' that doesn't exist and is a figment of imagination.

[kev61]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

 

Mount could leave today and I wouldn't bat an eye lid. 

I think you should.He is player that should be part of our re - build.

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I'm not trying treating others opinions as facts, and we're all using speculation as a reference for discussion at the end of the day. Based on what speculation we know, some of which has been around for years (re: the rejected contract under Roman), he's been offered several contracts. You can of course choose to reject that notion, but I do find it funny that it's okay to use speculation if its defending Mount's position but as soon as its flipped on it's end its more frowned upon because it possibly paints Mount is a lesser light. 

Yes, because he had a transfer ban and hired Frank who had managed him the season prior. Favourable circumstances and all, would that have happened without the transfer ban or if Frank wasn't manager at the time? I suppose we'll never know. 

Mount was called up to the England squad even before he had kicked a ball for us - what do you think? 

Let me ask you a serious question and cut to the chase. Do you think that Mount would have refused a contract that offered him conditions on par with the best paid players in our squad?

[Mark Kelly]

2 hours ago, Bison said:

Absolutely love that for Kante. I don't think I've ever been happier for a footballer if this is true. 

Sacrificed his body for this club, won almost everything with us and never really got the appreciation he truly deserves. It's an absolute shame he didn't get a send off but I guess it wasn't meant to be. 

I really wanted him to get a new deal with us but it would be madness on his part to turn down an offer like that. 

For sure, Kante leaving is 10000x more sad and depressing for me too than Mount leaving. He is by far one of the greatest players we've ever had.

Mount could leave today and I wouldn't bat an eye lid. 

Or ...or , one could say that Kante has played the club like a violin , promising he'd sign a new contract whilst running his current one down so he could reap the dividends having spent the best part of a seasons worth of games on the treatment table,

Either way , It's Kante so he goes with our thanks and blessing

[xceleryx]

19 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Mount was called up to the England squad even before he had kicked a ball for us - what do you think? 

Let me ask you a serious question and cut to the chase. Do you think that Mount would have refused a contract that offered him conditions on par with the best paid players in our squad?

It shows he had talent, which I've never claimed otherwise mind you. 

While that may seem like a simple enough question to ask, it's quite a layered one to answer in full. In simple terms, yes. You'd have to imagine any player in his position would sign on terms that put them at the pinnacle of the wage chain. 

The question from there then extends to whether or not one feels Mount is worth being at the top of the wage chain or not?

Everyone's going to have a differing opinion on this I'm sure. For me, he's not - at least yet. Taking into account the clubs wage restructure, Mount's last 18 months of football not being his strongest, and his production being so-so once context is applied to it, he's arguably not in the strongest position at present to try and demand that top dog contract. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Or ...or , one could say that Kante has played the club like a violin , promising he'd sign a new contract whilst running his current one down so he could reap the dividends having spent the best part of a seasons worth of games on the treatment table,

Either way , It's Kante so he goes with our thanks and blessing

Yes. I think (and forgive me if I’m wrong) but didn’t Kante himself say he’s uncomfortable with all this mawkish “nicest guy in football” crap?

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Or ...or , one could say that Kante has played the club like a violin , promising he'd sign a new contract whilst running his current one down so he could reap the dividends having spent the best part of a seasons worth of games on the treatment table,

Either way , It's Kante so he goes with our thanks and blessing

One could say that, but why on Earth would they?! 

Can't get my head round how much this idea of "running contracts down" has taken hold. Players and clubs mutually agree how long they'll maintain a working relationship and then ... The passage of time happens. That is literally it. Are players supposed to stop the passage of time?!

For Kante, I've never seen a single report about him being offered a new deal in recent years, or stringing on contract negotiations. Just my guess but it feels reasonable ... Surely the club have gone cold in the last 2 years on committing to paying him? Most clubs would.

Very sad to see him go, at the same time as not seeing any other viable option. He is, imo, still an absolutely incredible player when able to play. He's not someone who has been robbed of their "game" as it were by injury, more robbed of the ability to get on the pitch in the first place. And there is no one like him in world football, not just in how good he is at what he does, but just at what he does at all. So you can't go out and sign a similar player to pick when Kante is unavailable, you just have to make the hard decision to not play a type of football that centres around Kante.

Not great to see him take Saudi money but wish him well all the same.

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

For Kante, I've never seen a single report about him being offered a new deal in recent years, or stringing on contract negotiations. Just my guess but it feels reasonable ... Surely the club have gone cold in the last 2 years on committing to paying him? Most clubs would.

 

There were loads and loads of reports in the media of him "in negotiation" about a new contract , both last season and recently , absolutely loads of them.

If a player runs down his contract the club gets no money for him and if the club gets no money for him then the club goes bankrupt , it's how many clubs help  keep their heads above water, regardless of your opinion , it does matter and it can matter a lot 

 

NB: Not a dig at you or your opinion 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

Agree with all that."Rip it up and start again" (by orange juice) -  we should have been singing that in our final games

how about - Fings ain't what they used to be "One for the teenagers"

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

I'm quite giddy  at the prospect of getting rid of most of the team.Could it backfire?

if it does the salvation army are there for you

Edited June 7, 2023 by ROTG

[ShedMiddle]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

There were loads and loads of reports in the media of him "in negotiation" about a new contract , both last season and recently , absolutely loads of them.

If a player runs down his contract the club gets no money for him and if the club gets no money for him then the club goes bankrupt , it's how many clubs help  keep their heads above water, regardless of your opinion , it does matter and it can matter a lot 

 

NB: Not a dig at you or your opinion 

This running down the contract malarky is a big issue and doesn't seem right.  Not only do clubs lose out on huge fees but, they also have a player in their last year that is either not motivated at all or, giving less than 100%.  The players are in a powerful position and are holding clubs to ransom. Places like Saudi are making it even worse with the mega contracts that they're handing out to players.

Maybe something like compensation fees should be paid by a club or player signing on these 'free agents'.

[ROTG]

31 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Can't get my head round how much this idea of "running contracts down" has taken hold

Quite - Ange at Celtic, there is loyalty for you :0)

[thevelourfog]

29 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

There were loads and loads of reports in the media of him "in negotiation" about a new contract , both last season and recently , absolutely loads of them.

If a player runs down his contract the club gets no money for him and if the club gets no money for him then the club goes bankrupt , it's how many clubs help  keep their heads above water, regardless of your opinion , it does matter and it can matter a lot 

 

NB: Not a dig at you or your opinion 

Expressed myself poorly there tbh, meant no reports of him turning deals down. And I genuinely haven't seen that, but reports of negotiations that haven't been resolved without much trustworthy indication of why they couldn't be resolved. As I said, think it's very unlikely the club wouldn't have been offering great terms. I'd be annoyed if they were trying to compete with outside offers given his fitness issues.

On the second bit ... The club should be making money from lots of other places. Player trading shouldn't really be where a club with aspirations to win things makes its money. Look at the clubs we want to compete with and where they make their (legitimate!) money. And I guess I just don't get what "running down" a contact really is. How far into, for example, a 5 year contact do you get before a player is running it down? Should you be in negotiations every year? One way clubs don't go bankrupt is they try to get the best value on their contracts, and to eek out as long as possible underpaying (relatively) players. I'll not pursue it further, but I do reject that "running down" contracts is a thing, or at least a common thing.

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Quite - Ange at Celtic, there is loyalty for you :0)

Not really following, but did see a report he was on a rolling deal ... So equally could question Celtic's commitment!

Edited June 7, 2023 by thevelourfog

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, thevelourfog said:

I'll not pursue it further, but I do reject that "running down" contracts is a thing, or at least a common thing.

I think regardless that we are going to see a lot more of it going forwards 

[Bert19]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think regardless that we are going to see a lot more of it going forwards 

I think we're seeing it at the moment as many of our squad are paid far above their actual worth.  I think this is a large part of the reason for the very different signing policy since Winstanley & co have come in.  

If you're Pulisic for example, you must know that your next move is likely to yield less for you than the current package you get - so no rush to go anywhere. Might as well milk it for as much as you can. 

(I recognise Pulisic may be a poor example as the lad seems to think he's Ronaldinho, but the point stands with a lot of these) 

[Sciatika]

When Ballack joined us "on a free", I remember thinking about how much he would be paid in lieu of a transfer fee and how that might affect the dressing room. He was paid a lot, but to be fair, I don't think it affected the dressing room, though I may be wrong, of course.  

[Miguelito07]

1 minute ago, Sciatika said:

When Ballack joined us "on a free", I remember thinking about how much he would be paid in lieu of a transfer fee and how that might affect the dressing room. He was paid a lot, but to be fair, I don't think it affected the dressing room, though I may be wrong, of course.  

It didnt affect the dressing room because it was Ballack - who was absolutely class and the other players knew it. 

[ROTG]

16 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

I think we're seeing it at the moment as many of our squad are paid far above their actual worth.  I think this is a large part of the reason for the very different signing policy since Winstanley & co have come in.  

As the saying goes "you pay peanuts" 

44 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Not really following, but did see a report he was on a rolling deal ... So equally could question Celtic's commitment!

to be honest it was just a little jest with @xceleryx

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

When Ballack joined us "on a free", I remember thinking about how much he would be paid in lieu of a transfer fee and how that might affect the dressing room. He was paid a lot, but to be fair, I don't think it affected the dressing room, though I may be wrong, of course.  

 

Just now, Miguelito07 said:

It didnt affect the dressing room because it was Ballack - who was absolutely class and the other players knew it. 

Now , cast your mind back to the winners of the Champions league and the arrival of Romelu Lukaku to save them.

That definitely effected the dressing room and we are still seeing the fall out now in Mount wanting out. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Rob B]

1 hour ago, Bert19 said:

I think we're seeing it at the moment as many of our squad are paid far above their actual worth.  I think this is a large part of the reason for the very different signing policy since Winstanley & co have come in.  

If you're Pulisic for example, you must know that your next move is likely to yield less for you than the current package you get - so no rush to go anywhere. Might as well milk it for as much as you can. 

(I recognise Pulisic may be a poor example as the lad seems to think he's Ronaldinho, but the point stands with a lot of these) 

Not only is he going to milk it,  but if he becomes available on a free transfer, it means he can negotiate higher wages and even a signing on fee from his next club. 

On the topic of Kante, sad to see him go because he's a legend, but the right decision.  Huge amount off the wage bill moving forward, especially for someone who rarely plays.  I wonder if the club are secretly quite pleased tbh.   They wouldn't have wanted the negative PR of not offering a fans favourite a new deal, but at least this way it's a bit of a win-win for everyone.  Kante gets to say he couldn't turn it down, the club will say we offered him a competitive deal etc.  He leaves with our best wishes and away we go....

We need to go big for Caicedo and Lavia now though.   There's no way we can afford to lose Jorginho in January, along with possibly Kovacic, Kante, RLC, Mount and even Gallagher without some serious re-investment. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Rob B said:

Not only is he going to milk it,  but if he becomes available on a free transfer, it means he can negotiate higher wages and even a signing on fee from his next club. 

On the topic of Kante, sad to see him go because he's a legend, but the right decision.  Huge amount off the wage bill moving forward, especially for someone who rarely plays.  I wonder if the club are secretly quite pleased tbh.   They wouldn't have wanted the negative PR of not offering a fans favourite a new deal, but at least this way it's a bit of a win-win for everyone.  Kante gets to say he couldn't turn it down, the club will say we offered him a competitive deal etc.  He leaves with our best wishes and away we go....

We need to go big for Caicedo and Lavia now though.   There's no way we can afford to lose Jorginho in January, along with possibly Kovacic, Kante, RLC, Mount and even Gallagher without some serious re-investment. 

I agree , although we aren't able to command a fee for him , he only managed seven games last season due to injury and to be honest wasn't achieving much as the spearhead of the worlds most dysfunctional midfield so good news for all if it happens , and if anyone deserves the money it's N'Golo a Prince amongst men. 

[Max Fowler]

 

conflicting reports on Havertz

If true - this could be brilliant. New Number 1 and get rid of KK and Lukaku in one fell swoop.
 

 

[Ham]

9 hours ago, ROTG said:

Both asked to leave because they could not get into the first team and the club made money on their sales.  

You see no wrong in the actions of the previous board and no right in the current.

Any fool could see how good KDB was.

The club royally effed up there. 

Salah wasn't quite so obvious but history told that we messed up again. 

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

If he hadn't yet kicked a competitive Premier League ball then he was still a Championship player. Tomayto, tomahto I suppose. 

Hudson-Odoi and Loftus-Cheek were massively overpaid to begin when they signed their contracts, Hudson-Odoi's was also in the face of trying to fight off Bayern raising the cost further. Both were also part of the first team and playing games when they extended, even if not constant features. Just because we got fleeced in those deals doesn't mean doing so for Mount was the right move either. Mount was still getting a very good packet for where he was at the time. Not all situations were alike. 

Jeez I completely forgot we still had CHO.  Interesting to see if Poch can get a tune out of him. 

I'm all for keeping academy players in the squad regardless of whether there's another player out there even slightly better. 

It sends out a message to the players in the academy and to those on loan...... Colwill being a prime example. 

Also creates a core that are more likely to favour badge over perks elsewhere....... Naming no names. 

Talking of forgotten players, can Ampadu not be tried as a DM?