Transfer Talk Topic

[Bison]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

It shows he had talent, which I've never claimed otherwise mind you. 

While that may seem like a simple enough question to ask, it's quite a layered one to answer in full. In simple terms, yes. You'd have to imagine any player in his position would sign on terms that put them at the pinnacle of the wage chain. 

The question from there then extends to whether or not one feels Mount is worth being at the top of the wage chain or not?

Everyone's going to have a differing opinion on this I'm sure. For me, he's not - at least yet. Taking into account the clubs wage restructure, Mount's last 18 months of football not being his strongest, and his production being so-so once context is applied to it, he's arguably not in the strongest position at present to try and demand that top dog contract. 

Absolutely not.

I also find it strange that one of the arguments for Mount being at the top of the wage chain is that our current highest earners (Sterling, Koulibaly) don't deserve what they're on so how can Mount be denied. As if yet another player on a silly contract is what we need. 

[Ham]

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

conflicting reports on Havertz

If true - this could be brilliant. New Number 1 and get rid of KK and Lukaku in one fell swoop.
 

 

How likely is any party in a negotiation to describe the thing they want to buy as " a bargain".  

What utter tosh!

Regarding Lukaku, Inter selling something to us for £100m and then getting him on reduced and subsidised wages for years is the worst scenario in the history of football.

They either pay the f*CK up or he comes back to the club that owns him.  

We should not do any business with Inter again until they have some money in their account. 

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, Ham said:

How likely is any party in a negotiation to describe the thing they want to buy as " a bargain".  

What utter tosh!

Regarding Lukaku, Inter selling something to us for £100m and then getting him on reduced and subsidised wages for years is the worst scenario in the history of football.

They either pay the f*CK up or he comes back to the club that owns him.  

We should not do any business with Inter again until they have some money in their account. 

I don't know what's worse , Lukaku and Inter making monkeys out of us again or getting Onana one of footballs bellends as a keeper.

Here's an idea , why not tell Inter where to stick it , sell Koulibally to a club with the means to pay and buy a keeper who isn't a prat?

[FrankLampard8]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't know what's worse , Lukaku and Inter making monkeys out of us again or getting Onana one of footballs bellends as a keeper.

Here's an idea , why not tell Inter where to stick it , sell Koulibally to a club with the means to pay and buy a keeper who isn't a prat?

Fine but what if no one else is willing to buy KK for a meaningful fee? And we want a keeper and Onana is one of the guys the club has identified? Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind...

[xceleryx]

30 minutes ago, Ham said:

Jeez I completely forgot we still had CHO.  Interesting to see if Poch can get a tune out of him. 

I'm all for keeping academy players in the squad regardless of whether there's another player out there even slightly better. 

It sends out a message to the players in the academy and to those on loan...... Colwill being a prime example. 

Also creates a core that are more likely to favour badge over perks elsewhere....... Naming no names. 

Talking of forgotten players, can Ampadu not be tried as a DM?

Hudson-Odoi is dusted. He was downright awful in the Bundesliga before being dropped virtually altogether. Without his burst of speed he's got little else in his bag and not having much of a football brain see's a lot of his passing potential go out the window. Not really sure what his future holds but it doesn't reside here, I know that much.

Ampadu could probably hold a backup DM role, did move into midfield at Spezia for a little bit mid-season before returning to his role in defence. Was okay, nothing particularly special though. 

[exiledblue]

7 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

Far more gutted with Kante leaving than Mount personally, seven seasons and what a brilliant player in his prime, premier league and champions league winner. Unfortunately the injuries have taken their toll on him and he hasn’t looked the same player, keeps getting injured. For me though, probably one of my favourite ever Chelsea players, maybe I saw a bit of myself in him as a player, if I was actually good at football that is, anyway thanks NG. 

And made the difference when he played this season. Much more than a defending player

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

It shows he had talent, which I've never claimed otherwise mind you. 

While that may seem like a simple enough question to ask, it's quite a layered one to answer in full. In simple terms, yes. You'd have to imagine any player in his position would sign on terms that put them at the pinnacle of the wage chain. 

The question from there then extends to whether or not one feels Mount is worth being at the top of the wage chain or not?

Everyone's going to have a differing opinion on this I'm sure. For me, he's not - at least yet. Taking into account the clubs wage restructure, Mount's last 18 months of football not being his strongest, and his production being so-so once context is applied to it, he's arguably not in the strongest position at present to try and demand that top dog contract. 

That was long-winded answer without answering my question. Either the club has offered him terms that’s on par with the biggest earners in the squad or they haven’t. I don’t think Mount would have refused to sign such a contract and looking back at the three seasons he had with us before this one I’m at loss how the club has seemingly not offered such a contract to him. James is on 200 000/week. We have Koulibaly on almost 300 000. If I’m Mason Mount I’d be waiting for the club to get a grip and get him a reasonable offer. I wouldn’t be surprised if the club has tried to low ball him, offering something in the 150-180k range. Given how he’s been marketed by the club that’s obviously not going to cut it. Our loss, Man U’s gain. 

[xceleryx]

37 minutes ago, Bison said:

Absolutely not.

I also find it strange that one of the arguments for Mount being at the top of the wage chain is that our current highest earners (Sterling, Koulibaly) don't deserve what they're on so how can Mount be denied. As if yet another player on a silly contract is what we need. 

And here lies part of the layers to the situation discussed. 

Sterling is being paid marginally more than he was already getting at Man City while stepping backwards from a sporting perspective, his price point was already set. He also arrived with a strong record.

Koulibaly on the other hand was arguably one of the best defenders in Serie A. Despite his age, defenders also tend to age a bit better than your regular outfield players. While he did get a wage rise for joining, the raise was on par with the speculated amounts Mount has been offered. 

Of course those contracts can be argued back and forth themselves, but as you stated we don't more players on silly contracts unless they truly are S tier quality. 

[xceleryx]

1 minute ago, Sleeping Dave said:

That was long-winded answer without answering my question. Either the club has offered him terms that’s on par with the biggest earners in the squad or they haven’t. I don’t think Mount would have refused to sign such a contract and looking back at the three seasons he had with us before this one I’m at loss how the club has seemingly not offered such a contract to him. James is on 200 000/week. We have Koulibaly on almost 300 000. If I’m Mason Mount I’d be waiting for the club to get a grip and get him a reasonable offer. I wouldn’t be surprised if the club has tried to low ball him, offering something in the 150-180k range. Given how he’s been marketed by the club that’s obviously not going to cut it. Our loss, Man U’s gain. 

Well Dave, you ask a question that's impossible to be answered factually so what do you expect? Since we're not allowed to use speculation to discuss Mount it doesn't really leave much wriggle room for discussion does it? 

I'm not able to reference the reported £180k pw contract claimed offered to him under Roman's tenure. I can't use the recent reports stating the contract offered him to pre WC, or the reported one year extension that followed afterwards. 

All I know is that Mount has an issue somewhere along the line and that's preventing him from extending. We've got Mount's PR team spinning the club as the problem, we've got the clubs PR claiming Mount's been offered terms on several occasions for what they feel are fair deals. All of which leaves us right where we are now.

My opinion is as I shared before, Mount isn't worth a top dog contract. His numbers as a genuine midfielder are poor to say the least (34 appearances for 3G/3A), while his numbers as an attacking midfielder are padded by his taking of set pieces and scoring against the fodder. 

I'll ask you this, what do YOU think a player who has 1 league goal vs the top 6 in 4 seasons, and averages 2 open play assists in the league per season is worth? 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

Absolutely not.

I also find it strange that one of the arguments for Mount being at the top of the wage chain is that our current highest earners (Sterling, Koulibaly) don't deserve what they're on so how can Mount be denied. As if yet another player on a silly contract is what we need. 

No the last thing we need is to show the rest of the academy that our own isn’t rewarded but any half-decent foreign mercenary is paid a kings ransom on a whim. That is a very, very bad signal to send. 

It should be the reverse. But it goes well with us as a club, always doing things backwards. 

50 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

And here lies part of the layers to the situation discussed. 

Sterling is being paid marginally more than he was already getting at Man City while stepping backwards from a sporting perspective, his price point was already set. He also arrived with a strong record.

Koulibaly on the other hand was arguably one of the best defenders in Serie A. Despite his age, defenders also tend to age a bit better than your regular outfield players. While he did get a wage rise for joining, the raise was on par with the speculated amounts Mount has been offered. 

Of course those contracts can be argued back and forth themselves, but as you stated we don't more players on silly contracts unless they truly are S tier quality. 

Are you now saying Mount has been offered 300 000/week by the club, refused to sign it, and now can’t wait to move to Man U for 250 000/week? 

I see some flaws in this logic if I’m being honest. 

[Sleeping Dave]

43 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Well Dave, you ask a question that's impossible to be answered factually so what do you expect? Since we're not allowed to use speculation to discuss Mount it doesn't really leave much wriggle room for discussion does it? 

I'm not able to reference the reported £180k pw contract claimed offered to him under Roman's tenure. I can't use the recent reports stating the contract offered him to pre WC, or the reported one year extension that followed afterwards. 

All I know is that Mount has an issue somewhere along the line and that's preventing him from extending. We've got Mount's PR team spinning the club as the problem, we've got the clubs PR claiming Mount's been offered terms on several occasions for what they feel are fair deals. All of which leaves us right where we are now.

My opinion is as I shared before, Mount isn't worth a top dog contract. His numbers as a genuine midfielder are poor to say the least (34 appearances for 3G/3A), while his numbers as an attacking midfielder are padded by his taking of set pieces and scoring against the fodder. 

I'll ask you this, what do YOU think a player who has 1 league goal vs the top 6 in 4 seasons, and averages 2 open play assists in the league per season is worth? 

I asked for your opinion, not facts. But let’s leave it, you quite clearly have a strong view that Mount has refused to sign a deal with the club. My stance is that the club most likely has offered him a ridiculous offer considering his age, performance and general standing in the game. He’s a player for the future who has proven himself here with us. What more could the club possibly ask? He isn’t scoring enough? Well no one has for the past 4 seasons yet we continue to dish out top wages on shit players yet are unwilling to do it for Mount who is the one who actually deserves it. 
 

[BMox81]

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1666428733811486721?s=46&t=-1-ypEsK1AeTBUYwfsB7bA

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Ham said:

You see no wrong in the actions of the previous board and no right in the current.

Any fool could see how good KDB was.

The club royally effed up there. 

Salah wasn't quite so obvious but history told that we messed up again. 

 All you can do is judge what the boards have done and how it’s impacted the team. I am not saying the previous regime was perfect, however history shows the team consistently delivered the good under their watch. 

To date the new regime has removed a WC coach, replaced with a nobody who subsequently got sacked. The recruitment to the sum of £600m in two windows has not delivered any more that a bloated squad which finished in bottom half of the table, a dysfunctional dressing room  

Only the start of next season will tell if the new coach and squad will start showing signs of the club becoming a force in the PL again.

Maybe some are happy believe next season is the start of an new era. let’s see how long the enthusiasm stay if the results go south or Plato. 

Do you really believe KDB would have stayed at the club for 10 years, with the coaches the club had since his exit. 

As for Salah. Absolutely designed for the Klopp system, i doubt he would have got anywhere those numbers in more conventional team. 

Its all about opinions which keeps this forum going. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by ROTG

[Bob Singleton]

7 minutes ago, ROTG said:

[SNIP]

Maybe some are happy believe next season is the start of an new era. let’s see how long the enthusiasm stay if the results go south or Plato. 

[SNIP]

What's an ancient Greek philosopher got to do with this? 😉

[ROTG]

29 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

No the last thing we need is to show the rest of the academy that our own isn’t rewarded but any half-decent foreign mercenary is paid a kings ransom on a whim. That is a very, very bad signal to send. 

The spinning huge amounts of money 14 - 20 year olds for the development squad IMO is more damming than what is happen with MM. 

Emenalo convinces RA, to keep invested millions in the academy to make it the best in the country and over the past few years the club has been reaping the rewards of that investment.

Now i fear it’s on the slippery slope to oblivion. 

Just now, Bob Singleton said:

What's an ancient Greek philosopher got to do with this? 😉

It’s not the philosopher, I meant Justin Plato the Britsh touring car driver 😄

[Ham]

10 minutes ago, ROTG said:

The spinning huge amounts of money 14 - 20 year olds for the development squad IMO is more damming than what is happen with MM. 

Emenalo convinces RA, to keep invested millions in the academy to make it the best in the country and over the past few years the club has been reaping the rewards of that investment.

Now i fear it’s on the slippery slope to oblivion. 

It’s not the philosopher, I meant Justin Plato the Britsh touring car driver 😄

Jason?

[xceleryx]

Just now, Sleeping Dave said:

Are you now saying Mount has been offered 300 000/week by the club, refused to sign it, and now can’t wait to move to Man U for 250 000/week? Because Koulibaly, a washed up defender from Serie A who’s so clearly way over his head in this league, is reportedly on 295k/week. That’s absolutely fucking madness for a player like him. 

I see some flaws in your logic. 

That's not remotely close to anything I said, but I do applaud your efforts in trying to twist it. 

What I said was that the wage increase, based on the numbers available to us, would've seen both players have the same increase in wages. A £100k pw increase for Koulibay based on what he was earning at Napoli, and £100k pw for Mount based on what he was reportedly offered a couple years back. 

[Miguelito07]

42 minutes ago, BMox81 said:

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1666428733811486721?s=46&t=-1-ypEsK1AeTBUYwfsB7bA

I wonder what were the results from the medical tests

[xceleryx]

53 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I asked for your opinion, not facts. But let’s leave it, you quite clearly have a strong view that Mount has refused to sign a deal with the club. My stance is that the club most likely has offered him a ridiculous offer considering his age, performance and general standing in the game. He’s a player for the future who has proven himself here with us. What more could the club possibly ask? He isn’t scoring enough? Well no one has for the past 4 seasons yet we continue to dish out top wages on shit players yet are unwilling to do it for Mount who is the one who actually deserves it. 
 

And I asked you a question in return that you've conveniently ignored.

Either way, agree to disagree.

[xceleryx]

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by xceleryx

[Mark Kelly]

The way things are going Enzo is going to be in the middle alright , on his own 

[RDCW]

43 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

The way things are going Enzo is going to be in the middle alright , on his own 

We can pretend Jorghino is beside him. No difference 😉

[Bones]

hold on, Kante is leaving as a free agent!?

[Sleeping Dave]

40 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

And I asked you a question in return that you've conveniently ignored.

Either way, agree to disagree.

Did I? I specifically wrote that the one player we have on our books who may actually deserve a salary of +£200k/w is Mason Mount and hilariously he is the only player the club deem not worthy. 

He is by far the best presser we have. He is constantly being played out of position (LW/RW/LM/CM). He has played with attackers who are unable to score and ironically the best striker he has played with at the club is another academy player we tossed on the side of the road. This season he hasn't had the best of seasons, look where we find ourselves? He's been out injured and then hilariously frozen out by Potter. 

POTY both 2021 and 2022 in seasons when we won the CL, CWC and qualified for the CL the subsequent season. This year he played 1 655 PL minutes and scored only 3 and assisted another 2. 

2022/23: 1 655 PL minutes, 3 goals and 2 assists (sweet fuck all and mid-table obscurity with a shit load of shiny new toys who are shit)

2021/22: 2 364 minutes, 11 goals and 10 assists (13 goals, 16 assist in all comps) (POTY, CWC winners, FAC runner-ups, LC runners-up, USC winners)

2020/21: 2 893 minutes, 6 goals and 6 assists (POTY, CL winners, FAC runners-up, 4th PL)

2019/20: 2 874 minutes, 7 goals and 6 assists (FAC runners-up, USC runners-up))

He should have been given much a much improved deal in summer 2020. And after his season in 21/22 we should have gone all out to offer him a top contract. 

Name me one player in our squads in the seasons 2019/20 to 2022/23 more deserving of an offer of +£200k/week. I'll wait.

Imo he is absolutely pivotal to keep in the side and be played at CAM in Pochs 4231. This one will come back and bite us hard. Ten Hag must be laughing his ass off. 

[Mark Kelly]

17 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 

He should have been given much a much improved deal in summer 2020. And after his season in 21/22 we should have gone all out to offer him a top contract. 

 

The issue is Dave is that he was allegedly offered a much improved deal when Roman owned the club , slightly less than James signed for and refused it as he wanted the same deal .

Then the sanctions came into play and the club was sold .

The new owners allegedly offered him a new more lucrative deal but the length of the contract was too long for his liking and again allegedly was offered a slightly different deal at a shorter length which he then turned down over "image rights" 

He then sacked his Dad as his agent and appointed a proper negotiator and we now find ourselves in a situation where one side says they've done all they can and the other says they haven't done enough and we the supporters don't actually know the truth of any of it .

I am 110% behind your anger over the issue as I agree and have said many times previously that it all started to go wrong when the club took Lukaku on and gave him a stupid wage which he then threw back in their faces and flounced off back to Inter as quickly as his elephantine legs could carry him.

Like many companies before them , they valued the newbies higher than the ones who got them to that position in the first place .

I think If I was Mount I'd leave too ,  out of spite . 

I expect Lukaku is as we speak trying to negotiate a loyalty bonus for coming back again.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Mark Kelly