Transfer Talk Topic

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

You can get bogged down in stats.

When we bought Drogba, he had scored 39 goals in 122 senior appearances.

12 goals in 26 league games for Villareal last year is a good return. Not that i have seen him player. 

Just had a look at YouTube (lol) tall , quick, links play well ,  good awareness of others , OK one on one , missed some easy chances but did get a nice overhead kick goal , certainly looks like he enjoys a tumble for which he'd be flabbergasted not to get a free kick for over here . 

[ROTG]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Just had a look at YouTube (lol) tall , quick, links play well ,  good awareness of others , OK one on one , missed some easy chances but did get a nice overhead kick goal , certainly looks like he enjoys a tumble for which he'd be flabbergasted not to get a free kick for over here . 

Are you sure it’s not the D Forfana video photoshopped?

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ROTG said:

Are you sure it’s not the D Forfana video photoshopped?

One thing I will say , if he gets 12 goals a season he'll automatically be way ahead of anyone else , our players , dream of 12 goals a season.

[xceleryx]

27 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

The alarm is the amount of money on those - 130 million on players who might never do it for us.

We ended up spending so much money that we have now cornered ourselves into desperately needing to sell our best - and then being left with unproven youngsters that have no guarantee of delivering as we can no longer compete in the big leagues. 

We could also have spent £130m across more players at lower fees and still end up in the same boat. All transfers are a risk at the end of the day, right now it's just far too early to be drawing any real conclusions. 

Also our spending has little impact on us selling our "best".

Mount and Kova would've had their contract situations either way, neither's futures are linked to anything we've done in the market. Similarly to Kante leaving for nothing, his fate sealed by a combination of father time and a failing body. While the dregs like Ziyech, Pulisic, Auba, Loftus-Cheek and co were always likely to be on the chopping block come the summer. 

These were all inevitable whether we had spent £0m this season or £900m.

[Max Fowler]

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We could also have spent £130m across more players at lower fees and still end up in the same boat. All transfers are a risk at the end of the day, right now it's just far too early to be drawing any real conclusions. 

Also our spending has little impact on us selling our "best".

Mount and Kova would've had their contract situations either way, neither's futures are linked to anything we've done in the market. Similarly to Kante leaving for nothing, his fate sealed by a combination of father time and a failing body. While the dregs like Ziyech, Pulisic, Auba, Loftus-Cheek and co were always likely to be on the chopping block come the summer. 

These were all inevitable whether we had spent £0m this season or £900m.

Poor argument as we really did both. Blew our budget on way overpriced individuals and a ton of young players who we may have not needed. That’s how we got to £600m.

Having 35 players has contributed to the chaos culture at the club and questions about where the seniors fit in. Both Mount and Kova would be in very different situations had we backed Tuchel and moved more slowly. Exactly correlated to what we’ve done on the market I’m afraid.

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Poor argument as we really did both. Blew our budget on way overpriced individuals and a ton of young players who we may have not needed. That’s how we got to £600m.

Having 35 players has contributed to the chaos culture at the club and questions about where the seniors fit in. Both Mount and Kova would be in very different situations had we backed Tuchel and moved more slowly. Exactly correlated to what we’ve done on the market I’m afraid.

Having a weak coach , too concerned for 35 players pastoral health has hurt the club more , Potter should have removed the players he didn't fancy and made them train separately, but no , in fact the next game after Ziyech's move to PSG fell through he picked him in the first team . The bloke was a bellend .

[xceleryx]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

Poor argument as we really did both. Blew our budget on way overpriced individuals and a ton of young players who we may have not needed. That’s how we got to £600m.

Having 35 players has contributed to the chaos culture at the club and questions about where the seniors fit in. Both Mount and Kova would be in very different situations had we backed Tuchel and moved more slowly. Exactly correlated to what we’ve done on the market I’m afraid.

If it's such a poor argument then your initial complaint becomes utterly pointless in itself. Hard to blow our budget when you nor anyone else would have an idea what it actually was to begin with. On top of that, there's several layers that accounts for the way we spent. There was a late start to the summer window with the sale and immediate need to plug important gaps quickly, the January window was more planned and structured with a clearer direction of investing in younger talent to hopefully carry us forward in years to come. The prices paid are all subjective at the end of the day, what one person may see as an "overpay" another may not. 

A bloated squad hasn't helped but it's also a lazy cop out. Proper management would've drawn a line in the sand and expressed to those who were no longer counted on that this was going to be the case moving forward. This could've been done leading into the January window allowing these folk to seek moves. We made it a harder situation because Potter tried to be everyones friend and keep all included. 

There's really no guarantee that Mount or Kova's situation would've been any different under Tuchel, or in how we approached the market. The only guarantee is that both would've still been entering the final year of their deals come the summer. Mount for example had an opportunity to sign on under Tuchel after winning the Champions League if you go by reports. So really, his situation has been on the cards for some time whether you choose to agree or not. 

[Max Fowler]

22 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

If it's such a poor argument then your initial complaint becomes utterly pointless in itself. Hard to blow our budget when you nor anyone else would have an idea what it actually was to begin with. On top of that, there's several layers that accounts for the way we spent. There was a late start to the summer window with the sale and immediate need to plug important gaps quickly, the January window was more planned and structured with a clearer direction of investing in younger talent to hopefully carry us forward in years to come. The prices paid are all subjective at the end of the day, what one person may see as an "overpay" another may not. 

A bloated squad hasn't helped but it's also a lazy cop out. Proper management would've drawn a line in the sand and expressed to those who were no longer counted on that this was going to be the case moving forward. This could've been done leading into the January window allowing these folk to seek moves. We made it a harder situation because Potter tried to be everyones friend and keep all included. 

There's really no guarantee that Mount or Kova's situation would've been any different under Tuchel, or in how we approached the market. The only guarantee is that both would've still been entering the final year of their deals come the summer. Mount for example had an opportunity to sign on under Tuchel after winning the Champions League if you go by reports. So really, his situation has been on the cards for some time whether you choose to agree or not. 

But we do know we've blown our budget, because we're now in a desperate race to sell players before buying in order to comply with FFP.

Proper "management" would have listened to Potter's concerns about not having such a big squad but Boehly is the real manager at our club - he can't keep himself out of the spotlight - and couldn't help throwing his boy Potter under the bus.

The problem is "how we are approaching the market" - whether Tuchel was here or not. Boehly clearly knows nothing about football and yet people on here will attack everyone else - the players, the managers, before looking at him.

Why? Because we all know that we're most screwed if Boehly really doesn't know what he's doing and it's an easier cop out to say - Tuchel was done, Potter was never good enough, the players aren't trying and wanted to leave anyway.

No! Boehly has wrecked the culture in our club and now we have to hold his hand to get back to where we belong.

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

You can get bogged down in stats.

When we bought Drogba, he had scored 39 goals in 122 senior appearances.

12 goals in 26 league games for Villareal last year is a good return. Not that i have seen him player. 

Mourinho told Roman - under all circumstances you must buy Drogba!

Can't imagine Poch is doing the same with this guy. 

Another one Boehly's stats men have plucked out of thin air - like Anthony Gordon.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Mark Kelly]

22 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

But we do know we've blown our budget, because we're now in a desperate race to sell players before buying in order to comply with FFP.

Another one Boehly's stats men have plucked out of thin air - like Anthony Gordon.

To comply with FFP we need to shirt £20m , once we do we can spend as much as we like 

The Anthony Gordon who scored against us? He must be terrible.

[Max Fowler]

22 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

To comply with FFP we need to shirt £20m , once we do we can spend as much as we like 

The Anthony Gordon who scored against us? He must be terrible.

Good luck doing that - every club knows we need to sell players in the next two weeks and will try and get cut price deals.

And let's be honest our ridiculous 8 year contracts could easily hamper us in the longer term too.

Gordon's done nothing for Newcastle and failed to get in their team - can't think what he would have done for us despite Boehly's team picking him out as one of the outstanding talents in the Premier League... LOL.

Let's be honest - the blame for where we are at should be as follows:

• 80% Boehly and Co.
• 10% Potter
• 10% Players

People on here are acting as if it's as follows:

• 40% Players
• 30% Potter
• 20% Tuchel
• 10% Boehly and Co.

We should spend less time destroying the reputation of our Champions League-winning lads and more time questioning the strategy of the American suits who have run our club into the ground.

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Good luck doing that - every club knows we need to sell players in the next two weeks and will try and get cut price deals.

And let's be honest our ridiculous 8 year contracts could easily hamper us in the longer term too.

Gordon's done nothing for Newcastle and failed to get in their team - can't think what he would have done for us despite Boehly's team picking him out as one of the outstanding talents in the Premier League... LOL.

Let's be honest - the blame for where we are at should be as follows:

• 80% Boehly and Co.
• 10% Potter
• 10% Players

People on here are acting as if it's as follows:

• 40% Players
• 30% Potter
• 20% Tuchel
• 10% Boehly and Co.

We should spend less time destroying the reputation of our Champions League-winning lads and more time questioning the strategy of the American suits who have run our club into the ground.

No it's more like 

30% players and that's being kind , one player and one player alone raised their game under the new regime the rest of them got worse and some of them just gave up. 

50% Potter 

20% Todd

And one thing Gordon did do for Newcastle was score against Chelsea , damn you Todd you should have closed him down quicker.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Floyd25]

11 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We should spend less time destroying the reputation of our Champions League-winning lads

Probably only three of them left by start of next season sadly. 

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

No it's more like 

30% players

50% Potter 

20% Todd

And one thing Gordon did do for Newcastle was score against Chelsea , damn you Todd you should have closed him down quicker.

Mark I was probably the biggest and earliest critic of Potter on here.
The guy was absolutely out of his depth and he needed gone.
The fact that you think Todd is 20% (20%!!!) responsible for where we are is beyond me.

The whole football world can see that Todd has caused utter chaos from day one here.
I feel sorry for Potter because Todd did the opposite of what he wanted as a manager.
Now we blame Potter for not being strong enough to do what Todd wanted? 

How can Potter be so much to blame when he was the pet project of fetishizing Todd?
While putting 4-4-3 on the whiteboard, Todd licked his lips at hearing about Graham.
Speaking to the other owners behind Tuchel's back - Graham's name kept coming up.

Todd sacked Tuchel for not allowing his children in the dressing-room at half-time.
They needed multiple conversations about not signing Ronaldo and Anthony Gordon.
Todd himself was responsible for sacking Potter and bringing in clueless Graham.

Graham didn't want all these new players in January. Let's blame Graham for that.
No - it was Todd's fault for going above the manager and not backing him to the hilt.
Good luck Poch is all I say. Braver man than many in going up against Todd the narcicisst.
 

[Floyd25]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

Are you sure it’s not the D Forfana video photoshopped?

Fofana, Chukwuemeka, Hutchinson, the loan army still going strong. 

[ChelseaJambo]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

No it's more like 

30% players and that's being kind , one player and one player alone raised their game under the new regime the rest of them got worse and some of them just gave up. 

50% Potter 

20% Todd

And one thing Gordon did do for Newcastle was score against Chelsea , damn you Todd you should have closed him down quicker.

 

Who appointed Potter? 

Potter didn't hire himself so Boehly really has to shoulder all of that proportion of the blame.

For me:

Players - 20%

Boehly - 80%

[Max Fowler]

Never forget we could have done a Man City and built the club around Tuchel, just like they did with Guardiola.

We could have signed the players he wanted and crafted a team that would work for him.

Never forget with Tuchel in charge we could have easily finished fourth last season and competed even further up the table this coming season - maybe even made another run at the CL.

But no - "Tuchel had run his course."
No - "Tuchel had burned out due to everything."
No - "Tuchel was no longer getting a tune out of the players."
No - "Tuchel doesn't work for more than 2 years"

(Can never run the counter-factuals against these but Klopp and Guardiola have proved theories and supposed patterns about how long particular managers stay for and how long they function effectively are pulled out of the sky)

We have owners who want an American data driven approach and the manager really takes second stage.
Problem is we are competing against clubs - Liverpool and City who are building cultures around their elite managers.
I hope Poch is strong enough to stand up to Boehly - I doubt he is and I doubt we will help him much either.

Poch is a downgrade on Tuchel and Bayern are now building around TT - good luck competing with them too.
We are where we are and we have to move forward - but we should never forget who it was who got us in this mess.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Max Fowler

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

But we do know we've blown our budget, because we're now in a desperate race to sell players before buying in order to comply with FFP.

Proper "management" would have listened to Potter's concerns about not having such a big squad but Boehly is the real manager at our club - he can't keep himself out of the spotlight - and couldn't help throwing his boy Potter under the bus.

The problem is "how we are approaching the market" - whether Tuchel was here or not. Boehly clearly knows nothing about football and yet people on here will attack everyone else - the players, the managers, before looking at him.

Why? Because we all know that we're most screwed if Boehly really doesn't know what he's doing and it's an easier cop out to say - Tuchel was done, Potter was never good enough, the players aren't trying and wanted to leave anyway.

No! Boehly has wrecked the culture in our club and now we have to hold his hand to get back to where we belong.

Mourinho told Roman - under all circumstances you must buy Drogba!

Can't imagine Poch is doing the same with this guy. 

Another one Boehly's stats men have plucked out of thin air - like Anthony Gordon.

Firstly, there is nomore evidence that we are in potential breach of FFP than that we are seriously attempting to buy Mbappe. Secondly, the idea that no-one is saying Boehly is culpable in our current situation is patent nonsense! I and several others have been placing a large part of the blame on Boehly ever since he arrived and started talking nonsense and acting like a drunken sailor in a brothel in the transfer market.  He and Potter were the perfect storm of arrogance and weakness. The best we can hope for is that Boehly and Egbali remove themselves completely from the football related activities of the club and that Pochettino can begin to undo the psychological and tactical damage done by the Potter managerial fiasco.

[Holymoly]

7 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Looking back it’s shocking how uncoached we seemed. This is supposed to be elite sport but we looked like a child’s team.

Perhaps it just goes to show the importance of having a great coach as the majority of players seem completely unable to think for themselves?

[ROTG]

2 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Perhaps it just goes to show the importance of having a great coach as the majority of players seem completely unable to think for themselves?

Rinse and repeat for day one of the nobody coach and his back room staff.

[DannyLB]

3 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Perhaps it just goes to show the importance of having a great coach as the majority of players seem completely unable to think for themselves?

That's the modern player for you. Don't think, just execute the pre-set plan.

[Holymoly]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

we've put ourselves out of contention for top talent because we finished outside the top four. 

If I were a young player, even one with top talent, my thinking might be to go to Chelsea with some specific bonuses bolted into my contract, learn the Premier League and get to know my teammates in a  first season with no European football. Be integral to getting them into the top four pick up said bonuses and become a club legend for many years. We've seen too much supposed "top talent" wither and fail over the years. What we need is top talent that wants to be here.

[Holymoly]

I really don't think we need consider paying stupid money for a GK. I know this may sound contentious but I don't have a particular problem with Kepa. The difference between a keeper that is valued at £70m and one at £30m is negligible especially if they are playing behind a fully functioning outfield. We have more important holes in the squad to deal with than junking the GK.

[Willian Dollar Baby]

Arsenal in for Havertz.

 

Now I'm not overly against this transfer but it does continue the trend of selling our good players before the bad ones. Today I've seen we are likely to lose Mount and Gallagher/ Chalobah are up for sale. By bloating our squad we've ended up in a position where we are desperate to sell but are only likely to have offers for good players. If Mount is insistent on leaving, Gallagher is the perfect squad player to keep around yet we are seemingly happy to sell him. Whether it's FFP related or not our silly spending has forced us into this. 

Kovacic and Kante also leaving, again in isolation I'm not against these players going but what is left of our midfield? Enzo will be the only one left.

Caicedo is going to cost a fortune + potentially Colwill. Lavia is 19 and a very good prospect but where is the experience and leadership coming from?

The big problem is we've got Lukaku, Ziyech, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Azpi, Thiago Silva, Cucurella, Koulibaly and probably many more who are on high wages and unsellable for any respectable fee. That is assuming we don't get bailed out of jail by the Saudis on a few of them. 

We need to sell probably 10 players and can't give away most of them, I'm extremely concerned about which ones will be left over. In particular our group of quality HG academy talent are seemingly first out the door. You think it would raise alarm bells when top clubs are offering large sums of money for our players. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Let's be honest - the blame for where we are at should be as follows:

• 80% Boehly and Co.
• 10% Potter
• 10% Players

People on here are acting as if it's as follows:

• 40% Players
• 30% Potter
• 20% Tuchel
• 10% Boehly and Co.

Or to look at it another way, without the owners the club wouldn't be here any more and we'd all be supporting Brentford. People's memories are so short when it comes to remembering where we were when the season started. If you expected business as usual you are deluded. This was the ideal time to have the root and branch clear out we've all been crying out for for years. Yes we may have been stung overpaying but I wouldn't be surprised if in the long term the success rate of the new players isn't dissimilar to the previous regime. 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

2 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I really don't think we need consider paying stupid money for a GK. I know this may sound contentious but I don't have a particular problem with Kepa. The difference between a keeper that is valued at £70m and one at £30m is negligible especially if they are playing behind a fully functioning outfield. We have more important holes in the squad to deal with than junking the GK.

Long term Kepa is not the answer. He was on fire at the start of the season shot stopping wise however in the last 10 games he reverted to type. Even in the period where he was saving everything he was still a liabilty in the air. Coming from Spain I think it's assumed he's good with his feet but I personally feel he's bang average even in this area. 

Priority list for incomings should be:

1. DM

2. CM

3. Striker

4. GK

We won't win much with Kepa but letting Kova, Kante, Mount and Jorginho all leave within 6 months means there are now other priority positions that need major investment. We will need at least 2 new CMs. 

Another reason I'm not against Lukaku returning is it could mean we instead upgrade in goal. As time goes on this feels extremely unlikely however if we let go of Havertz we literally have Broja back from ACL rehab, extremely raw D Fofana or miss-use Nkunku out of his ideal spot. What is the plan? 

It's all well and good letting players go but not the entire midfield + depth and the only senior striker we have willing to play for us. These will all end up being replaced for big money and we'll look back wondering what the point was.