Transfer Talk Topic

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Will you stop making up narratives to suit your agenda please Max there isn't a Chelsea fan alive who believes TB was our saviour.

I think Max probably needs a rest from this thread, but tbf he was replying to someone who literally said we'd not exist without Boehly. 

[Mark Kelly]

20 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We don't get into a situation where our best players want to leave.

If they want to leave we are forced to sell, but we also need money from somewhere before the end of June.

Lavia is a downgrade on Kovacic - let's see if we really upgrade Mount and Havertz.

Maddison was mooted as a replacement, I don't think he's an upgrade.

We managed to lose Rudiger one of the main reasons were not as good as we were under Tuchel, Christensen and came within a mm of losing Azpillecueta last year because the previous regime left it too late and then got caught out with the Ukraine business. 

I doubt you will find a single person on this forum who wants to lose Mount, he's universally loved but when he's determined to go and my theory is his nose was badly put out by the previous regime giving Lukaku the money Mount deserved himself there's not a lot Boehly can do about it. Every deal we have offered has been turned away. 

Mr Chelsea has his heart set on being Mr United. 

[Max Fowler]

38 minutes ago, DannyLB said:

We're not "forced to sell Mount due to FFP" though, are we? Same with Kova.

Never said we were due to FFP!

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We managed to lose Rudiger one of the main reasons were not as good as we were under Tuchel, Christensen and came within a mm of losing Azpillecueta last year because the previous regime left it too late and then got caught out with the Ukraine business. 

I doubt you will find a single person on this forum who wants to lose Mount, he's universally loved but when he's determined to go and my theory is his nose was badly put out by the previous regime giving Lukaku the money Mount deserved himself there's not a lot Boehly can do about it. Every deal we have offered has been turned away. 

Mr Chelsea has his heart set on being Mr United. 

Point is - if we still had Tuchel - Mount and Kova would be two of the first names on the team sheet.

And we'd have Champions League football - and they'd know exactly what their role is.

Two of the biggest sticking points for those lads moving forwards.

And btw they both adored Tuchel.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Mark Kelly]

19 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

And btw they both adored Tuchel.

Good for them. 

 I feel quite sure given their performances that they didn't adore Potter. 

Under Tuchel we wouldn't have achieved Champions league football given the way things were going, we were getting steadily worse. Personally I would have backed him to turn it around again but he'd hardly set the league alight previously, we got to third simply because Arsenal and Spurs screwed up late in the season as per usual.  

The single biggest mistake Boehly made was trying to do too much too soon and listening to those in the media praising Potter for being the coming man, he should have brought in someone of greater stature. 

 

[Original 21]

Well this makes a change…

[Max Fowler]

28 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Good for them. 

 I feel quite sure given their performances that they didn't adore Potter. 

Under Tuchel we wouldn't have achieved Champions league football given the way things were going, we were getting steadily worse. Personally I would have backed him to turn it around again but he'd hardly set the league alight previously, we got to third simply because Arsenal and Spurs screwed up late in the season as per usual.  

The single biggest mistake Boehly made was trying to do too much too soon and listening to those in the media praising Potter for being the coming man, he should have brought in someone of greater stature. 

 

Either our squad really was in need of a complete rebuild and Tuchel was getting the very, very best out of them (fired when 6th - CL places previously) or it wasn’t and he just „wasn’t setting the league alight“.

Can’t have it both ways I’m afraid Mark, although others on here will convince you otherwise!!

 

[Floyd25]

58 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Good for them. 

 I feel quite sure given their performances that they didn't adore Potter. 

The only hope I have for Mount moving forward, is that one of our players boots him in to row z next season. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

We managed to lose Rudiger one of the main reasons were not as good as we were under Tuchel, Christensen and came within a mm of losing Azpillecueta last year because the previous regime left it too late and then got caught out with the Ukraine business. 

I doubt you will find a single person on this forum who wants to lose Mount, he's universally loved but when he's determined to go and my theory is his nose was badly put out by the previous regime giving Lukaku the money Mount deserved himself there's not a lot Boehly can do about it. Every deal we have offered has been turned away. 

Mr Chelsea has his heart set on being Mr United. 

💯

As I said earlier, for a lot of people here their default position is always that it’s the club’s fault. 

[Blue Kratos]

1 hour ago, Original 21 said:

Well this makes a change…

They can both bog off to the Saudi league then.

In the wardrobes case I'd drive him to the airport.

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I think Max probably needs a rest from this thread, but tbf he was replying to someone who literally said we'd not exist without Boehly. 

That "someone" was me but I went on to qualify that comment by pointing out that whoever had taken over was going to be met with the same issues, namely zero continuity and a very unbalanced squad ravaged by injuries. Everyone at the club needs to take their share of the travesty that was this season, but to lump it all at the door of the owners is naive in the extreme.

[RDCW]

2 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

That "someone" was me but I went on to qualify that comment by pointing out that whoever had taken over was going to be met with the same issues, namely zero continuity and a very unbalanced squad ravaged by injuries. Everyone at the club needs to take their share of the travesty that was this season, but to lump it all at the door of the owners is naive in the extreme.

You may disagree with it, but naive it most certainly is not.

Boehly fired the sitting coach too soon (by his own admission) and without a ready replacement in position.

Boehly hired a second rate coach , who proved not only to be out of his depth, but also lacking the judgement, courage, or both to fashion a good side from the resources available.

Boehly brought in too many new players too quickly and with no obvious strategy or view to constructing a squad fit for the demands to be placed upon it.

Boehly doubled down on his original error in leaving Potter in situ way beyond the point where it was apparent that he was potentially leading us towards relegation.

Boehly compounded his error in hiring Frank Lampard in the belief that it would placate the fans, failing to research the cloudy nature of the relationships which Frank left behind him when he was sacked in favour of Tuchel. He also showed a total lack of understanding of what had happened to the squad under Potter and what was therefore needed to guide the club away from the blunt end of the table.

I'm not sure how you can apportion the lion's share of responsibility or blame to anyone other than Boehly (and Eghbali).

[McCreadie]

6 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 ...Knows absolutely nothing about football and we all have to pray that he has now got out of the way.

He has made mistakes, but the idea he knows absolutely nothing about football is a construct of the gutter press that you have swallowed whole.

[kev61]

3 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

The only hope I have for Mount moving forward, is that one of our players boots him in to row z next season. 

Nice.Will that make you feel better?

Edited June 15, 2023 by kev61

[kev61]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Never said we were due to FFP!

Point is - if we still had Tuchel - Mount and Kova would be two of the first names on the team sheet.

And we'd have Champions League football - and they'd know exactly what their role is.

Two of the biggest sticking points for those lads moving forwards.

And btw they both adored Tuchel.

The FACT is we were on the slide under Tuchel.

As Mark pointed out he could have turned around with the right support.

I feel some players were getting uppity and lacked desire under Tuchel and needed moved on.I have faith Tuchel knew who they were and would have got rid!.

Then Boehly and co  comes along with size 16 boots and wades in with both feet.

So yes, Boehly and Co have a lot to answer for, but probably unintentional.

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Never said we were due to FFP!

Yeah, but you're treating it as such. 

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Point is - if we still had Tuchel - Mount and Kova would be two of the first names on the team sheet.

And we'd have Champions League football - and they'd know exactly what their role is.

Two of the biggest sticking points for those lads moving forwards.

And btw they both adored Tuchel.

Mount started all but 3 PL games under Potter before injury ended his season. Despite this he still finished with the 8th most league minutes played and was only passed by a few because he missed 10 of the last 14 games. Similar stands for Kovacic who finished with the 6th most league minutes played this season, actually playing more than he did last season as a matter of fact. While virtually also being "managed" through at least part of the season due to his knee problem. The difference for either would've been marginal under Tuchel at best. 

You're assuming we'd have Champions League football as if Tuchel was immune from finishing outside of the Top 4. 

Is that so, have you spoken to both players personally to confirm this is their biggest sticking points? Of course not, you're merely projecting to create the narrative you seek.

[chara]

13 minutes ago, kev61 said:

The FACT is we were on the slide under Tuchel.

As Mark pointed out he could have turned around with the right support.

I feel some players were getting uppity and lacked desire under Tuchel and needed moved on.I have faith Tuchel knew who they were and would have got rid!.

Then Boehly and co  comes along with size 16 boots and wades in with both feet.

So yes, Boehly and Co have a lot to answer for, but probably unintentional.

I am no Todd and Co apologist and whilst indeed "they" saved our club it could have been a number of alternative saviours.

Regardless of who came in it was in no way a "normal" change of ownership and any new owners were not acquiring an up and running functional organisation,

Rudderless and like a headless chicken comes to mind.

Enough blame to go around without apportioning  % 's

Lets all take a deep breath and hope the new season is the beginning of a new era requiring no little patience as hopefully lessons have been learned.

Great debate guys...well done.

 

 

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Arsenal in for Havertz.

 

Now I'm not overly against this transfer but it does continue the trend of selling our good players before the bad ones. Today I've seen we are likely to lose Mount and Gallagher/ Chalobah are up for sale. By bloating our squad we've ended up in a position where we are desperate to sell but are only likely to have offers for good players. If Mount is insistent on leaving, Gallagher is the perfect squad player to keep around yet we are seemingly happy to sell him. Whether it's FFP related or not our silly spending has forced us into this. 

Kovacic and Kante also leaving, again in isolation I'm not against these players going but what is left of our midfield? Enzo will be the only one left.

Caicedo is going to cost a fortune + potentially Colwill. Lavia is 19 and a very good prospect but where is the experience and leadership coming from?

The big problem is we've got Lukaku, Ziyech, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Azpi, Thiago Silva, Cucurella, Koulibaly and probably many more who are on high wages and unsellable for any respectable fee. That is assuming we don't get bailed out of jail by the Saudis on a few of them. 

We need to sell probably 10 players and can't give away most of them, I'm extremely concerned about which ones will be left over. In particular our group of quality HG academy talent are seemingly first out the door. You think it would raise alarm bells when top clubs are offering large sums of money for our players. 

The trend isn't selling good before bad, its that good naturally generates more interest than the bad ones and therefore are easier and more likely to be shifted. A lot of those who've been floated about have had uncertain futures BEFORE ownership changed and any sending by them was had. Many of those on the scrap heap have under delivered for the last 2-3 seasons now, or have reached a stage where their contracts require renewal and if that's not reciprocated then the logical direction to take is to sell and recoup what we can.  In this day and age letting layers like your Mount's, Havertz's, and Kovacic's leave for nothing simply isn't acceptable from a business stand point. 

I've no doubt we'll see the likes of Auba, Ziyech, Pulisic and co in due course. They just may not necessarily be the first cabs off the rank because they're of a lesser quality and or face the prospect of earning far less elsewhere. There's no rush for other clubs to take these guys now when there's more in demand players that'll require attention first, that's perfectly normal. Maybe I'll have concerns if we're at the end of the window and these guys are still here, for now though it's not worth the stress. 

As for Havertz directly, if he isn't interested in extending so be it. While I'd prefer to sell outside of the Premier League, it's the sort of transfer that only few clubs outside of England are going to be able to afford realistically. Just so happens that Premier League clubs have the money to make it happen. There's a player there, just not sure if it'll ever happen here or come to fruition in general. He's an enigma to say the least. If he ends up at Arsenal hopefully he ended become prime Bergkamp or something I guess.

[kev61]

1 hour ago, McCreadie said:

He has made mistakes, but the idea he knows absolutely nothing about football is a construct of the gutter press that you have swallowed whole.

I think it's quite safe to say he/they know nothing about football (or knew nothing when they took over).

Don't blame the gutter press for us being a laughing stock we have done that to ourselves.

[kev61]

4 hours ago, RDCW said:

You may disagree with it, but naive it most certainly is not.

Boehly fired the sitting coach too soon (by his own admission) and without a ready replacement in position.

Boehly hired a second rate coach , who proved not only to be out of his depth, but also lacking the judgement, courage, or both to fashion a good side from the resources available.

Boehly brought in too many new players too quickly and with no obvious strategy or view to constructing a squad fit for the demands to be placed upon it.

Boehly doubled down on his original error in leaving Potter in situ way beyond the point where it was apparent that he was potentially leading us towards relegation.

Boehly compounded his error in hiring Frank Lampard in the belief that it would placate the fans, failing to research the cloudy nature of the relationships which Frank left behind him when he was sacked in favour of Tuchel. He also showed a total lack of understanding of what had happened to the squad under Potter and what was therefore needed to guide the club away from the blunt end of the table.

I'm not sure how you can apportion the lion's share of responsibility or blame to anyone other than Boehly (and Eghbali).

It's hard to argue with that.If you are going to apportion blame for last season then our new owners inadvertently  are primarily to blame.

[Floyd25]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

Nice.Will that make you feel better?

Yea, it’ll make me feel great. 

[kev61]

7 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

Mr Chelsea has his heart set on being Mr United. 

I think that's a bit disingenuous. If we as fans think what a shambles we are,what does a player with a brain think?

Every man/player for himself - I have no problem with that.It is an ethos created by money rich owners with no interest in football.

9 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

Yea, it’ll make me feel great. 

Little amuses the innocent.

[Floyd25]

11 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Little amuses the innocent.

I was being facetious obviously, just think it’s best for both parties for the transfer to be concluded and for him to move on, it’s become boring. 

[kev61]

1 minute ago, Floyd25 said:

I was being facetious obviously, just think it’s best for both parties for the transfer to be concluded and for him to move on, it’s become boring. 

Some people might think it's another a major cock up by people that can't see a player with a special talent.

Let's keep faith with Havertz and hope he comes good.I would put my house on he wont.

But then I'm not a part of a multi - billion pound investment company.

[Floyd25]

1 minute ago, kev61 said:

Some people might think it's another a major cock up by people that can't see a player with a special talent.

Let's keep faith with Havertz and hope he comes good.I would put my house on he wont.

But then I'm not a part of a multi - billion pound investment company.

Ideally Poch would work with him and get him back to his best, even improve him, but sadly the ship has sailed. How much of it is down to the owners and how much is on Mason having his head turned? Probably both to blame in this case. 
 

Kai has had his moments and I’ve championed him at times, but I wouldn’t be too disappointed with him leaving personally. 

[kev61]

1 minute ago, Floyd25 said:

. How much of it is down to the owners and how much is on Mason having his head turned? Probably both to blame in this case. 
 

It has Zilch to do with Mount!.If his "head is turned" then that is his perogative.

I will say again Mount has fallen down the pecking order.Do you expect him to stay because he supported Chelsea as a boy?