Transfer Talk Topic

[paulw66]

1 minute ago, thevelourfog said:

No, you said we were heading for a "disaster". That is exactly what I was arguing with. I can see you've since pulled back from that, but it is (to use your word) "disingenuous" to suggest I'm arguing with points you didn't make.

I expected a tough season, but never anything like what actually happened. Not even the most cynical and negative posters here were talking about only being mathematically safe from relegation in April. The worry was Europa Conference qualification! 

Yes, disaster was strong, but it was clear things weren't right.

I don't know how, based on what we saw in those early games (and pre season) anyone can say with any confidence that we definitely would have made top 6 (which was what I was responding to) with Tuchel in charge.

Maybe we should have stuck Tuchel anyway, and accepted the fact we weren't going to have a good season, and stuck it out. I think one poster in particular is confusing my believing we were heading for a poor season with or without Tuchel is the same as me suggesting we would have done as badly had we kept him (which I am not)

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

 

I'm sorry - nearly every fan knew that Graham Potter was not at the level required to manage Chelsea or a good cultural fit. 

 

Not on here they didn't 

[east lower]

23 minutes ago, RDCW said:

It's OK, most of us are Brits no need for the bit in brackets!

Probably true......................................but have you accounted for the sense of humour bypasses that can occur in forum's

[Max Fowler]

34 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Not on here they didn't 

The same fans that were buying into Boehly's long-term project which was supposedly oh so different to the previous regime.

Look how well that turned out. Football reality came back and bit Boehly right in the ass.

I believe many fans seriously wanted Potter to succeed and Boehly's long-term project to work and had to willfully delude themselves into believing it could really happen.

Now reality has struck - we can only build a long-term project around an elite manager like Liverpool and City have done.

And  I am afraid Poch - who may be a great transitional manager - will not be that guy either.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Ham]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

I find it extremely believable - I am saying it's a sackable offence.

Tuchel was almost certainly sacked for something outside of football.  Once you realise that you can move on.  It'll perhaps come out one day. 

On the subject of the ownership, I hate the fact that club decisions are seen as Boehly decisions.  It's lazy as he's part of an ownership group. Eghbali appears to be more hands on in places.  Clearlake hold the purse strings.  

Also, and if being of the opinion that the ownership appears to have the best interests of the club over the medium to long term in mind then yes, I'm an apologist.  Imagine having Levy or Kroenke in charge for the past decade. 

They've shown that they're willing to invest massively and my hope is that the investment in the future works out.

Am I worried about this window and next season? Damn straight I am. 

Am I worried about the commitment of the owners? No. 

Oh, just a heads up. You appear to have a quick response template you often use which starts "absolute nonsense".  Not sure if you knew. 😉

 

[Max Fowler]

 

If City got Rice - we could at least enjoy the Gunners not getting him 😄 

6 minutes ago, Ham said:

Tuchel was almost certainly sacked for something outside of football.  Once you realise that you can move on.  It'll perhaps come out one day. 

On the subject of the ownership, I hate the fact that club decisions are seen as Boehly decisions.  It's lazy as he's part of an ownership group. Eghbali appears to be more hands on in places.  Clearlake hold the purse strings.  

Also, and if being of the opinion that the ownership appears to have the best interests of the club over the medium to long term in mind then yes, I'm an apologist.  Imagine having Levy or Kroenke in charge for the past decade. 

They've shown that they're willing to invest massively and my hope is that the investment in the future works out.

Am I worried about this window and next season? Damn straight I am. 

Am I worried about the commitment of the owners? No. 

Oh, just a heads up. You appear to have a quick response template you often use which starts "absolute nonsense".  Not sure if you knew. 😉

 

I think locking Todd out of the dressing room is "outside of football". Seems highly plausible.

Good point on the board - Eghbali equally culpable. 

Being an apologist isn't saying they are well-intentioned - it's saying they are not largely to blame with where we are at so far.

Or claiming that they somehow are very knowledgeable about football or other ridiculousness.

Template wouldn't have to be used if there wasn't so much nonsense being spouted! 

[Ham]

19 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

If City got Rice - we could at least enjoy the Gunners not getting him 😄 

I think locking Todd out of the dressing room is "outside of football". Seems highly plausible.

Good point on the board - Eghbali equally culpable. 

Being an apologist isn't saying they are well-intentioned - it's saying they are not largely to blame with where we are at so far.

Or claiming that they somehow are very knowledgeable about football or other ridiculousness.

Template wouldn't have to be used if there wasn't so much nonsense being spouted! 

Locking Todd out of the dressing room wasn't it.  It was more interesting than that by all accounts. 

Oh, and if city get Rice, we don't get Caicedo. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Ham

[Original 21]

New striker link alert…

[Bob Singleton]

24 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

New striker link alert…

 

Christian Falk' was talking about this on 27th May. Nothing "new" here. 😉

[Max Fowler]

 

 

 

 

[paulw66]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

 

 

It's all happening! 

[ChelseaJambo]

3 hours ago, McCreadie said:

No it isn’t. It’s just made up nonsense. The idea that a self made multi billionaire buys a club for 4billion whilst knowing “nothing”about the game is laughable. I would suggest he knows as much about football as anyone here, or put another way, as much as Roman or Sheik Mansour (or any other PL owner) and has, like them, been advised by experts from inside the game at every turn. He has made mistakes and decisions have backfired, I don’t have a problem with that. Once you accept TT had to go due to non-football factors (which you seem to be struggling with), the rest is just a sequence of unfortunate events that could just as easily have spun another way. Now we have experts in place in most of the key positions, things will improve. 

 

That makes it worse in my view. If you accept he knew something about football, to do what he did is then just plain idiocy and hubris rather than misguided ignorance.

Roman and Mansour may have not known much more, but they employed people who did and then acted by following their guidance and accepting their own limitations. 

[Mark Kelly]

11 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

It's all happening! 

Imagine the hilarity when we sell Havertz to Arsenal and use their money to help buy Rice and Caicedo 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Imagine the hilarity when we sell Havertz to Arsenal and use their money to help buy Rice and Caicedo 

Roman would do that. He’s the ultimate lad 🤣

[My Blood Is Blue]

22 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Imagine the hilarity when we sell Havertz to Arsenal and use their money to help buy Rice and Caicedo 

More likely we'll sell them Havertz on the cheap, miss out on Rice and Caicedo and sign Dele Alli in a panic deadline day signing, plus rush through the loan signing of a midfielder from some random side in Europe that we've never heard of but that has a close relationship with the medical room.

[Sleeping Dave]

 

6 hours ago, ROTG said:

Sorry but I doubt that team would beat any of the current top 6 home or away. Would also struggle with a mid week winter match at kenelworth road. 
 

no leadership, no steel in the team, house of cards come to mind. 

So not much a change compared to the previous season then. Only difference is that the team I’ve proposed has potential. The one we just witnessed had neither current ability or future potential. 

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Couple things. 

• The midfield is awfully unbalanced outside of Enzo and a proposed first choice DM coming in. Gallagher and Hall cannot play as apart a of midfield pivot, they simply don't have the profile for said role. At a stretch maybe Gallagher pinch-hitting alongside a DM as a more aggressive option, but that's unlikely to happen as it'll mean dropping Enzo. Hall looked entirely lost at senior level in the one midfield appearance he had. Santos is a bit more suitable but a gamble in itself. Any reasonable injury to either Enzo or our DM and it's just about game over.
• Mount ain't gonna be here, in the rare chance he is I don't see why we'd start him over a far more dynamic and productive attacker in Nkunku who's ideal position is just off a main CF. Mount may give us more off the ball, but if we've got a proper pivot in place that'll secure things then having a more influential attacker makes far more sense. 

There's a couple other minor things but those are the big ones that stand out. Also baffles me wanting to keep Mendy over Kepa, when the former has two left feet and has showcased he ain't it.

Any midfield we have will be unbalanced according to you. I’m not even sure what you are referring to when you talk about balance, I doubt you’ve seen enough of the players to deem how they will work in a unit that’s actually properly coached. Santos and Hall are both CMs. Why they can’t play at CM and how you reached that conclusion is beyond me. Gallagher had 30 games at CM for Palace scoring 7 PL goals. Again, what are you making your judgement on? A chaotic season where not a single player passed as above average? 

Regarding Mount. I’ll eat my hat if Nkunku is deemed as the better player come end of next season. As for the Kepa vs Mendy discussion. Mendy has showed that he can be a great keeper. I’ve never seen anything of the sort from Kepa despite numerous opportunities to prove me wrong. He’s shit, plain and simple. I don’t care about how good he is at passing or dribbling. A goalkeepers first task is to make saves and prohibit the opposition from scoring. Kepa let’s in goals from well outside the box because he’s anticipation and technique is average at best. He will never be anything but a decent La Liga keeper. We need better. 

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Pretty much agree 100% with this.

One player you missed out was Cesare Casadei.  When it comes to him and Santos, I'm in two minds as to which of the two to keep in the squad and which to send out on loan.  I can see both, in a season or two - along with Enzo - being our first choice midfield.

No doubt they are both proper talents. I think Santos may be just ahead, but I agree that one of them needs to be part of the squad next season. 

[paulw66]

7 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

No doubt they are both proper talents. I think Santos may be just ahead, but I agree that one of them needs to be part of the squad next season. 

The  fact Santos has just played for the full national team may be a barometer of where he is at.

Lots of talk he is wrapping up a WP at the moment 

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

What is bizarre is you arguing with points I am not making.

It was clear something was very wrong from the outset.

I am not, and have not said Tuchel wouldn't have got more points than Potter/SFL, but I am saying that we wouldn't have had a good season either way.

Quite. I even claimed he’d be sacked before the season would be over last summer. Sure it only took a few months into the new season but the writing was on the wall. We were heading downwards fast under him. Not taking away that CL win, but to claim he’d have gotten us CL football this season is just ridiculous. I predicted us to finish 6-8th and that’s where we were going under Tuchel. Better than what we ended up? Sure. But still not good enough. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, paulw66 said:

The  fact Santos has just played for the full national team may be a barometer of where he is at.

Lots of talk he is wrapping up a WP at the moment 

Apparently they are relaxing the laws in the UK as well ( I expect Liverpool have complained) so that you can have up to 4 players in the squad who don't have the requisite points 

[Bob Singleton]

12 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

No doubt they are both proper talents. I think Santos may be just ahead, but I agree that one of them needs to be part of the squad next season. 

 

5 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

The  fact Santos has just played for the full national team may be a barometer of where he is at.

Lots of talk he is wrapping up a WP at the moment 

I think in pure technical terms, Santos is probably ahead of Casadei (though I wouldn't want to hazard by how much), but Casadei has half a season of Championship football under his belt, and a year of living in - and acclimatising to - England. It could make a difference as to how one or other might cope in a maiden season in the Premiership.

[Max Fowler]

At this point if we got Caicedo over the line I would go nuts

- involving Gallagher in the deal seems like a brilliant option

 

 

 

[chara]

Have to smile somewhat ruefully as everyone is right with whatever line they are following but no one is completely right and the whole affair starting from HMG to The Poch has been far more convoluted and complicated than the simplistic...not in an intellectual sense I hasten to add...concentrating on elements rather than the overall very wide ranging factors.

Very interesting debate all round and again well done everyone.

My only input..and not as a view point or apologist or any attempt to refute or agree with any particular argument.

Anyone watching any major sport over here is used to seeing talking heads from a multitude of media outlets interviewing individual players in crowded dressing rooms or at half time, Something not common in our game and I hope never will be..the celebrations after a cup etc win are one thing but the intrusion during the battle of the regular season is a no no for me.

The alleged falling out over the "dressing roomgate"  affair reeks of media opportunism and whilst there may be some truth in the reporting the TT sacking was not fueled or hinged on that event.

[JaneB]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

It's all happening! 

Or not!

I am sooooo bored of reading about players were are meant to be interested in signing, most of whom I've never heard of.

I don't care how he played last season, Mount should be staying put so get it sorted Chelsea and Mason and Poch.

Brighton hopeful of signing Gallagher because they can offer him European football.?  In what universe did we ever think we would be reading that sentence?

I'm not getting into any deeper arguments or even surmising on why TT left Chelsea, but why would any owner try and get into our dressing room at half time?  Absolute madness and completely out of order.  TT had every right to lock the door and if TB can't see that then he has no idea how the game works over here.  

[paulw66]

49 minutes ago, JaneB said:

 

I'm not getting into any deeper arguments or even surmising on why TT left Chelsea, but why would any owner try and get into our dressing room at half time?  Absolute madness and completely out of order.  TT had every right to lock the door and if TB can't see that then he has no idea how the game works over here.  

I dont think it was ever suggested it was at HT.