The past players and staff thread

[Ham]

52 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

You see, I think Klopp takes a year off, than goes to Real.

I just don't see the appeal so much of going from Leverkusen to Bayern. Why not stay put?

 

I can't see the board, players or fans wanting to see heavy metal, long ball football at all. 

[boratsbrother]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Don't forget Xabi Alonso also played for Bayern Munich so he has ties there too.

The big draw would be the EPL rather than Liverpool.  Winning in the the most popular and prestigious league in world football is far more challenging and exciting than doing it for Bayern In a significantly weaker league 

Bayern will only become a big challenge again if they go through a bad few years. 

I see Alonso going to Liverpool and Klopp taking a year or two off..

Be interesting to see what TT does next. He might also take time away from the game. He might struggle to get another job at an elite club so somewhere like Newcastle might be the next best for him.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Let's be honest we over rate the Premier league and it's teams pulling power so much. When was the last time one of our top teams took one of the best players in the world from one of the elite? 

You say that, but the PL is the most watched league in the world. Yes, Real, Barca and Bayern are huge, but if you are a serious manager, winning the Bundesliga is a bit meh

If I was going to leave Leverkusen, and assuming they have won the league, I would either want to stay and have a go at defending it, and competing in the CL, or go to an entirely new league.

 

[paulw66]

16 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

 

Be interesting to see what TT does next. He might also take time away from the game. He might struggle to get another job at an elite club so somewhere like Newcastle might be the next best for him.

This, I could see. 

Tuchel's stock has not exactly risen recently, unlike a de Zerbi or an Alonso

[martin1905]

2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

You say that, but the PL is the most watched league in the world. Yes, Real, Barca and Bayern are huge, but if you are a serious manager, winning the Bundesliga is a bit meh

If I was going to leave Leverkusen, and assuming they have won the league, I would either want to stay and have a go at defending it, and competing in the CL, or go to an entirely new league.

 

It's what we peddle out in this country yet look at the players and managers that have been at Bayern over the years.

In the last 10 years they have had Pep, Ancelotti,  Flick, Nagelsmann and Tuchel.

Most, if not all the best players and managers in the Bundesiga go to Bayern. 

I think the only people that think winning the league with Bayern is a bit meh are fans of premier league teams.

 

[paulw66]

4 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

I think the only people that think winning the league with Bayern is a bit meh are fans of premier league teams.

 

Really? 11 years on the spin. It's not difficult (generally)

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

Most, if not all the best players and managers in the Bundesiga go to Bayern. 

 

 

Which is why it is so easy and dull.

Dortmund kept finishing 2nd, and then Bayern pinched their best player. How exciting. 

[martin1905]

24 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Really? 11 years on the spin. It's not difficult (generally)

Which is why it is so easy and dull.

Dortmund kept finishing 2nd, and then Bayern pinched their best player. How exciting. 

May well be dull, boring, easy, whatever.

Doesn't stop the best managers and players wanting to and going there.

[Bert19]

4 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Don't forget Xabi Alonso also played for Bayern Munich so he has ties there too.

True. He'd have a big rebuilding job to do there though - not sure anyone wants that pparticular gig given Tuchel's obvious difficulties with it this season.  Managerial targets might not be at all willing unless several of that old guard aren't going to be there next year and there's some autonomy over a fairly large transfer spend

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

You see, I think Klopp takes a year off, than goes to Real.

I just don't see the appeal so much of going from Leverkusen to Bayern. Why not stay put?

 

I wouldn't be shocked if Real trigger Ancelotti and go for Alonso this summer if he wins the Bundesliga with Leverkusen.  We know what they can be like if they want someone

[Mark Kelly]

33 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

True. He'd have a big rebuilding job to do there though - not sure anyone wants that pparticular gig given Tuchel's obvious difficulties with it this season.  Managerial targets might not be at all willing unless several of that old guard aren't going to be there next year and there's some autonomy over a fairly large transfer spend

I wouldn't be shocked if Real trigger Ancelotti and go for Alonso this summer if he wins the Bundesliga with Leverkusen.  We know what they can be like if they want someone

There are rumours that Salah is off to Saudi on the summer so imagine taking on a Liverpool side as the new boy with no touchstone and a bunch of asthmatics. 

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, Bert19 said:

True. He'd have a big rebuilding job to do there though - not sure anyone wants that pparticular gig given Tuchel's obvious difficulties with it this season.  Managerial targets might not be at all willing unless several of that old guard aren't going to be there next year and there's some autonomy over a fairly large transfer spend

There's also a bit of a rebuilding job required at Liverpool in the not so distant future. 

Probably easier to walk into Bayern and be successful while retooling than it would be at Liverpool, so won't be surprised if he does end up staying in Germany.

[paulw66]

18 hours ago, martin1905 said:

May well be dull, boring, easy, whatever.

Doesn't stop the best managers and players wanting to and going there.

Sure. They get well paid, a virtually guaranteed league winners medal, and a guaranteed go at the CL. It's a gentle ride. 

Of all of those managers you listed, none, bar Flick (who won the CL) will be remembered for what they achieved at Bayern, because winning the Bundesliga at Bayern is barely a challenge. And none of those elite managers stuck about for very long. 

 

[JaneB]

Sorry, I just came across this and couldn't resist.  I don't want to start any debates, we've done all that.

Just a reminder of how great we once were 😪

Also saw Hazard scoring a spectacular goal against Liverpool.  We had the best player in the Premier League.  If we went down a division I doubt we'd have any players who were better than those already there.

[chara]

3 hours ago, JaneB said:

Sorry, I just came across this and couldn't resist.  I don't want to start any debates, we've done all that.

Just a reminder of how great we once were 😪

Also saw Hazard scoring a spectacular goal against Liverpool.  We had the best player in the Premier League.  If we went down a division I doubt we'd have any players who were better than those already there.

JT, ,,,,, "It's only a broken neck...no need for treatment,we've got this".

[ROTG]

Claude Makelele interview: ‘Chelsea’s players need to understand the club’s DNA’

PARIS, FRANCE - OCTOBER 25: Former PSG, Real Madrid and FC Chelsea player Claude Makélélé attends the UEFA Champions League match between Paris Saint-Germain and AC Milan at Parc des Princes on October 25, 2023 in Paris, France. (Photo by Lionel Hahn/Getty Images)
By Adam Leventhal
Mar 5, 2024
46
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In September 2023, Claude Makelele announced he was leaving Chelsea after four years as a technical mentor to the club’s young players.

He posted on social media at the time that the decision had been reached by “mutual consent”, that he was going to “seek a fresh, new challenge” and that “blue will always be the colour of my heart”.

In Doha, Qatar, Makelele speaks to The Athletic to elaborate on his departure, the new era he left behind at Stamford Bridge and his plans for those next steps.

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To understand why the Frenchman left, you have to rewind to his appointment in 2019. It was part of former owner Roman Abramovich’s behind-the-scenes reunion of former players to technical positions.

Makelele — who made 217 appearances and won five major trophies in five years (2003-08) at Stamford Bridge — joined Frank Lampard (then manager), Jody Morris (his assistant), Petr Cech (technical and performance advisor), Carlo Cudicini, Paulo Ferreira and Tore Andre Flo (all in the loans department) to add his expertise.

“I went back to Chelsea after Roman, Frank and Petr called me to try to make a development of the Chelsea DNA,” says the 51-year-old. “The players need to understand that.

“We built ourselves with Gianfranco Zola, Roberto Di Matteo, all these kinds of players and we followed this path. We made success and we have to make these new young players understand how to make themselves a success again in the Premier League. Even if the owner is different, the DNA never changes, the platform never changes.”

His return signalled a switch in his career path. His retirement at Paris Saint-Germain in 2011 coincided with the purchase of the club by Nasser Al-Khelaifi’s Qatar Sports Investments group. Makelele started his coaching career alongside Carlo Ancelotti and former France team-mate Laurent Blanc at PSG. Technical roles at Monaco and Bastia followed, then he assisted Paul Clement (who had also coached at PSG) at Swansea City, before returning to the Qatari-owned Belgian club Eupen as manager. Then came an emotional return to the Bridge.

The four years back in London were “amazing”, he says, alongside old friends and fresh players. “We started to understand a new strategy and I was working a lot with Petr and Carlo to develop the loan department,” he says. The names from the production line roll off the tongue. “We had success with Conor Gallagher, Marc Guehi, Billy Gilmour.”

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Makelele was in his element, preparing players for life as a professional.

“I enjoyed myself because I spent time in the loan department helping the players,” he explains. “When I arrived, I was coaching them individually, this is the way to go, making them understand the way they are supposed to play and that will let your quality come through.”

That individual training helped. Makelele became a trusted mentor to some.

“One example is Trevoh Chalobah, who was playing as a midfielder,“ he says. ”I made him understand he was not a midfielder — you need to play behind (in defence), because that allows you to see the game. So we talked a lot. He tried one time and he said he was comfortable like this and he started making his way.”

Chalobah’s development included a loan at Lorient during the 2020-21 season.

“I travelled to Lorient to speak with the manager and the sporting director to make sure they knew that we wanted him to progress in this way. It made me happy because now he has his own position and this is the way we need to work with younger players,” says Makelele.

Passing on knowledge came naturally to the Frenchman, who won 71 caps. “The academy works in a good way, we built the new generation but with the right mentality. All these young players understand the focus needed to make the dreams come true for the fans,” he says.“They need support, they need to understand the law of the club and the standing of the club is to win trophies.”

Under Abramovich’s ownership, Chelsea won 18 major trophies. The enforced switch to new owners after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the UK government’s sanctioning of Abramovich meant change was signalled. Makelele retained his position under Todd Boehly’s stewardship — which began in May 2022 — for a year, but by September last year, he decided it was time to go.

“I stopped six months ago because the new project with Chelsea is different to the one I built for,” he explains. “Now is a different thing, a different project. It will take time. It’s a problem for Chelsea, because they don’t have time.”

Makelele spent five years at Chelsea before returning as a mentor for young players (Darren Walsh/Chelsea FC via Getty Images)
There’s no hint of malice when Makelele speaks of the new regime, more a sense of paternal concern. “Roman picked me to go step by step, because we were learning day by day. But it’s not happening any more,” he says. “We need to be positive and give them time because it’s a different footballer, a different generation.”

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The churn of players, transfer outlay of over £1billion ($1.2bn) and four different managers (including a return for Lampard at the end of last season) meant incredible change. The carefully curated pathway from academy to first team has naturally been disrupted by a huge influx of new — and young — players. Not all fit the bill or have been ready to pick up the baton of those more successful players of the past.

“I know in football, anywhere — not just Chelsea — some players don’t have the DNA of the club,” says Makelele. “When you buy one club, you need to understand the background, and how difficult it is to be at that level.”

Last season’s 12th-place finish was Chelsea’s worst since 1993-94, when they finished 14th. They are now 11th and 14 points off the top five. “You come to Chelsea to win trophies, not just to learn about the Premier League,” says Makelele. “They bought some amazing players but they need to help them learn simplicity and humility and that will help them grow in the right way. The fans are worried about the history (of winning), which always happens in football.”

Reaching the Carabao Cup final against Liverpool was a step in the right direction but not being able to kill off the game — and then losing — in extra time showed the development of Mauricio Pochettino’s young squad still has some way to go.

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“Chelsea are one of the biggest clubs in London and it’s more difficult to adapt to the pressure,” says Makelele. “Because the fans know football, they judge quickly and they know exactly what they want. They see if the player is not ready, (then) he can’t be successful.”

Moises Caicedo’s £100million ($127m) price tag may suggest he would be ready to dominate in a central midfield role. Makelele was there when he arrived, but is no longer a shoulder to lean on.

“He needs to learn,” adds Makelele. “He’s an amazing player. If Chelsea don’t give him the platform with these details, he will struggle and it will be difficult and he won’t play at a higher level than he was before in the Premier League (with Brighton). He needs to learn, to read; it’s very important for people to give him this message.”

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Makelele is one of few players to have a position named after them, so when he talks about how to be a successful central defensive midfielder, you listen.

“It’s not about the physical quality, it’s about the smarts,” he says. “Understanding about when to make an impact, when not to, learning about where your team-mates are, you have to use this position to read the game. You need to have leadership in this position. You don’t play for yourself, you play for everyone else to be OK in the team. Because the manager can’t do anything anymore, you have to guide the way to play and the way to win.”

So with Makelele and others gone, who can talk about the Chelsea DNA now?

“I don’t know. It’s my club and I love this club, it’s hard,” he says. “But I will have a job where I am going, maybe I will do more of what I was doing (helping players at Chelsea) on the pitch, more as a trainer.”

For now, his role is reconnecting with Qatar — where he was speaking at the Web Summit conference — and their post-World Cup push to generate more talent.

“Now I’m back with Qatar to work on their project again and produce young players and their understanding, not just about football but their human side,” he explains. “We’re also starting to work in Africa, not only my country DR Congo but every single country to give this strong message.”

[Backbiter]

Quote

Claude Makelele interview: ‘Chelsea’s players need to understand the club’s DNA’

“It’s not about the physical quality, it’s about the smarts,” he says. “Understanding about when to make an impact, when not to, learning about where your team-mates are, you have to use this position to read the game. You need to have leadership in this position. You don’t play for yourself, you play for everyone else to be OK in the team. Because the manager can’t do anything anymore, you have to guide the way to play and the way to win.”

Fantastic quote. That encapsulates what Maka was as a player. Someone with intelligence who completely understood what his role was: to help the rest of the team function. And he did it to perfection. I believe he was frustrated at Real because it was a club where players had huge egos, and he felt under-appreciated, but at Chelsea he found a place where he was treasured by his teammates as much as the fans.

A true legend. Very sad that he's moved on, but typical of the chaos unleased by the forced sale of the club.

[Bison]

Love to see it. 

[chara]

Great article/interview with Makale...a great player and football "person" talking about the real game with intensity and affection,,,,sums up a lot of things and by not saying much about the new regime actually speaks volumes!

The acknowledgement that the fans DO know is worth the read........

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Bison said:

Love to see it. 

Good to see him playing regularly again after several years of consistent injuries, the standard however is pretty ordinary overall. 

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Backbiter said:

Fantastic quote. That encapsulates what Maka was as a player. Someone with intelligence who completely understood what his role was: to help the rest of the team function. And he did it to perfection. I believe he was frustrated at Real because it was a club where players had huge egos, and he felt under-appreciated, but at Chelsea he found a place where he was treasured by his teammates as much as the fans.

A true legend. Very sad that he's moved on, but typical of the chaos unleased by the forced sale of the club.

Highlights the need for some leadership to be drafted in, ideally though the spine of the side. 

Also exposes the weaknesses in the current generation of footballers because of how they're coached at grassroots and academy levels. A lot more emphasis is put on repetition and patterns of play, rather than on the fly problem solving. So when players do get to a senior level when they're no longer in a comfortable systematic environment they look lost.

[Bison]

11 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Good to see him playing regularly again after several years of consistent injuries, the standard however is pretty ordinary overall. 

Yeah, world class player making it look easy as always.

[Mark Kelly]

2 hours ago, Bison said:

Yeah, world class player making it look easy as always.

I would imagine the temperate climate has helped him stay injury free and he's a great player so probably finds it so much easier there. 

[Bison]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

I would imagine the temperate climate has helped him stay injury free and he's a great player so probably finds it so much easier there. 

He had Hamstring surgery Nov 2022, if I recall correctly. It would have been good to see him start this season off the back of a full summer break. 

Look at him in those clips, moving at pace Enzo could only dream of. A midfield pairing of Kante and Caciedo and we'd be competing for a CL place. 

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Bison said:

He had Hamstring surgery Nov 2022, if I recall correctly. It would have been good to see him start this season off the back of a full summer break. 

Look at him in those clips, moving at pace Enzo could only dream of. A midfield pairing of Kante and Caciedo and we'd be competing for a CL place. 

October 2022. Returned and made 5 league appearances before breaking down again with a groin injury at the back end of the season. 

Granted it wasn't a huge sample size upon return he looked slower and lagged behind the pace of a lot of matches, a similar issue that was presenting prior and evident when he wasn't able to make the sort of recovery runs he once used to manage. 

Pairing Kante and Caicedo wouldn't remedy the midfield. Two players that aren't positionally disciplined, prefer to hunt the ball around to win it back, then are so-so in possession when it comes to moving the ball forward and creating. We'd have ended up with similar short-comings that we used to have when we paid Kante and Kovacic together, and the latter was far better technically than either of those two. 

[Bison]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

October 2022. Returned and made 5 league appearances before breaking down again with a groin injury at the back end of the season. 

Granted it wasn't a huge sample size upon return he looked slower and lagged behind the pace of a lot of matches, a similar issue that was presenting prior and evident when he wasn't able to make the sort of recovery runs he once used to manage. 

Pairing Kante and Caicedo wouldn't remedy the midfield. Two players that aren't positionally disciplined, prefer to hunt the ball around to win it back, then are so-so in possession when it comes to moving the ball forward and creating. We'd have ended up with similar short-comings that we used to have when we paid Kante and Kovacic together, and the latter was far better technically than either of those two. 

Returning from that type of injury + surgery during a season is difficult. Would have been much fairer to judge him after a full pre-season. If Reece comes back and looks a little leggy in April/May should we get rid of him too?

[Mark Kelly]

2 hours ago, Bison said:

Returning from that type of injury + surgery during a season is difficult. Would have been much fairer to judge him after a full pre-season. If Reece comes back and looks a little leggy in April/May should we get rid of him too?

I think we should get rid of him anyway . 

True story.