Guest Alex Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 3 hours ago, Bert19 said: Did Enzo tell you what he earns then? Stop quoting player salaries like they are facts. Because they aren't. They're numbers largely picked out of the air in order to justify an argument that a player isn't worth what they are supposedly paid. What a bizarre post. Given that's the figure posted in all the reputable media outlets, I'm imagining there's some reason they can write about it like that. If they're guessing they have to write things like "reported to be, believed to be", to show there's conjecture and not fact. Mistakes can be made, but if all the media outlets are doing it, there's got to be some reason. Not going to bother looking into it further, it's a large amount whatever, but it was a very weird point to make @Bert19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Hopefully one of the Saudi clubs help us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpokey24 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 hours ago, Bigpokey24 said: Is he your new bete noir now that Mudryk and Chilwell didn't play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Quote Marcelo Bielsa: "The hardest player to find in football is the 8. I named it 'the Modrić', who defends like a 6 and attacks like a 10. He has the ability to defend, the skills to attack and understanding the game in both directions." Would call it 'the Lampard' personally but moving on swiftly... Our current #8 Enzo struggles massively in both facets. He is a defensive liability and doesn't have the necessary quality to play in the final third. How do we solve this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 37 minutes ago, Bison said: Would call it 'the Lampard' personally but moving on swiftly... Our current #8 Enzo struggles massively in both facets. He is a defensive liability and doesn't have the necessary quality to play in the final third. How do we solve this problem? Play him deeper like he did at Benfica and currently does with Argentina. Caicedo either slots into the #8 role instead, providing both defensive and attacking input. or Play a proper double pivot where a certified DM plays alongside Enzo in more of a Matic/Mikel type of role. He can obviously cut it in the Premier League and shown that (contrary to what some may believe), so it's not really a skillset issue per se. Granted they'll always be moments in which his athletic limitations will surface during higher tempo transitional phases of play that come with the Premier League in its modern form. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, xceleryx said: Play him deeper like he did at Benfica and currently does with Argentina. Caicedo either slots into the #8 role instead, providing both defensive and attacking input. That just brings the opposing team onto him right on top of the defenders who’ll be being asked to receive the ball from the keeper. They’ll have less space to do their thing and surrender possession in more dangerous areas. 3 hours ago, xceleryx said: Play a proper double pivot where a certified DM plays alongside Enzo in more of a Matic/Mikel type of role. Haven’t got a reliable one of those currently, shall we spend another big lump of money to cover Fernandez‘a inability to operate in this league. 3 hours ago, xceleryx said: He can obviously cut it in the Premier League and shown that (contrary to what some may believe), so it's not really a skillset issue per se. In your eyes maybe. But my eyes and quite a few others can see what is actually happening - as do those nasty numbers in the thread above. As did our performances as a team when he didn’t play. 3 hours ago, xceleryx said: Granted they'll always be moments in which his athletic limitations will surface during higher tempo transitional phases of play that come with the Premier League in its modern form. The PL is just high paced and he cannot cope with it, he’ll go the same way Juan Sebastian Veron did. A loan or cut price transfer will follow within the next season or two. Better it happens sooner rather than later for the sake of the team. Edited September 9 by east lower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingThistle Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 On 01/02/2023 at 15:42, chrisb said: Let’s hope he hasn’t sung any “naughty” songs on social media in the last 15 years! Scanning the threads, I came across this. So I am blaming you @chrisb for recent events. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 10 minutes ago, KingThistle said: Scanning the threads, I came across this. So I am blaming you @chrisb for recent events. That’s a fair cop your honour! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 21 minutes ago, east lower said: That just brings the opposing team onto him right on top of the defenders who’ll be being asked to receive the ball from the keeper. They’ll have less space to do their thing and surrender possession in more dangerous areas. A non-issue considering he's played the role before, including in the PL when he first arrived, and was more than comfortable. 23 minutes ago, east lower said: Haven’t got a reliable one of those currently, shall we spend another big lump of money to cover Fernandez‘a inability to operate in this league. I agree, we don't - well, Ugo is but obviously not here this season. I mean, the whole premises of buying players in general is to kinda offset weaknesses of others, or where certain positions fall short. 55 minutes ago, east lower said: In your eyes maybe. But my eyes and quite a few others can see what is actually happening - as do those nasty numbers in the thread above. As did our performances as a team when he didn’t play. Not really in my eyes at all, it's factual information that's out there. Enzo was literally one of the best performing midfielders when he arrived. 56 minutes ago, east lower said: The PL is just high paced and he cannot cope with it, he’ll go the same way Juan Sebastian Veron did. A loan or cut price transfer will follow within the next season or two. Better it happens sooner rather than later for the sake of the team. Besides the point where he has shown he can cope and perform, no matter how much you try and ignore or deny it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 15 minutes ago, xceleryx said: A non-issue considering he's played the role before, including in the PL when he first arrived, and was more than comfortable. He’s been consistently one of the poorest performers, noticed by fans and pundits. Not sure why you’re trying to portray otherwise, the results speak for themselves. Better side without him than with him. Unarguable. Soon as the opposition saw his limitations, they sussed him and how to play against him. 19 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Not really in my eyes at all, it's factual information that's out there. Enzo was literally one of the best performing midfielders when he arrived. Besides the point where he has shown he can cope and perform, no matter how much you try and ignore or deny it. “When he arrived “ - I’m not sure that’s correct and even if it were were two seasons on and now he’s almost a liability. Saved only by Bill & Ben and the Flowerpot men’s insane, egotistical desire to prove that they were right in spunking £100+million on a £50 million player that’s just not suited to this league. He can’t cope, shows that most weeks he’s on the pitch. Watch that short video of him versus Palace. Laughably bad, if it wasn’t for us. But time will tell eh. Simeone will save him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 5 hours ago, xceleryx said: Besides the point where he has shown he can cope and perform, no matter how much you try and ignore or deny it. Well, to add he’s coped and performed by contributing 2 goals from open play and one from a penalty plus a world-class number of 4 assists - all from only 47 appearances and we’ve lost more than we’ve won when he started. A resounding statement of proof of something. 0.06 goals per game 0.08 assists per game And all for €130m, bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 9 hours ago, xceleryx said: Besides the point where he has shown he can cope and perform, no matter how much you try and ignore or deny it. Also forgot to mention that he sits a less than magnificent 38th in the completed pass statistics in the PL this season. Coping and performing? You're setting a low-bar if all that is something you are happy promoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 Enzo Fernández is shit. There. Easy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 14 hours ago, xceleryx said: Play him deeper like he did at Benfica and currently does with Argentina. Caicedo either slots into the #8 role instead, providing both defensive and attacking input. or Play a proper double pivot where a certified DM plays alongside Enzo in more of a Matic/Mikel type of role. He can obviously cut it in the Premier League and shown that (contrary to what some may believe), so it's not really a skillset issue per se. Granted they'll always be moments in which his athletic limitations will surface during higher tempo transitional phases of play that come with the Premier League in its modern form. Playing him deeper certainly helps him but I'm not convinced it's beneficial for us as a team. He's being played now in an advanced psoiton because there's nowhere else to hide him. Caicedo and Lavia are both better than him in those deeper roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said: Enzo Fernández is shit. There. Easy. Don't you just hate it when members post highly technical coaching terms that are way beyond my "Roy Of The Rovers" level awareness ? Edited September 9 by Michael Tucker Sodding emojis! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 3 hours ago, Bison said: Playing him deeper certainly helps him but I'm not convinced it's beneficial for us as a team. He's being played now in an advanced psoiton because there's nowhere else to hide him. Caicedo and Lavia are both better than him in those deeper roles. Really depends on how we setup and approach things IMO. Still think there's room for him to be successful here, whether it happens or not remains to be seen however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, east lower said: Also forgot to mention that he sits a less than magnificent 38th in the completed pass statistics in the PL this season. Coping and performing? You're setting a low-bar if all that is something you are happy promoting. We're 3 games into the season, can't really read much into statistics at this point in time for any player tbf. Again, not said he's performing now. I said he performed during his initially 5 months or so after joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 8 hours ago, east lower said: Well, to add he’s coped and performed by contributing 2 goals from open play and one from a penalty plus a world-class number of 4 assists - all from only 47 appearances and we’ve lost more than we’ve won when he started. A resounding statement of proof of something. 0.06 goals per game 0.08 assists per game And all for €130m, bargain. Not going to sit here and say his production could be more, it could be, and probably should be. Granted, some of that is also down to the inability of others finishing off chances he has created. Again, a factual statement and proof below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, chara said: Don't you just hate it when members post highly technical coaching terms that are way beyond my "Roy Of The Rovers" level awareness ? #HereToHelp Edited September 10 by Michael Tucker Obvious isn't it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 I’d compare the Enzo transfer with the Arrizabalaga transfer. Anyone who has read my thoughts on Arrizabalaga knows. Enzo might be the worst transfer we’ve ever been involved with. Small, weak, slow and prone to misplacing passes in dangerous areas. He’s virtually everything you don’t want your midfielder to be in the PL. We have to cut our losses in January. He needs to be removed from the squad, it’s unsustainable to keep playing him and massively unfair for Maresca. I hope he shows balls and bench him. He has no business being in our best starting XI. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, xceleryx said: Not going to sit here and say his production could be more, it could be, and probably should be. Granted, some of that is also down to the inability of others finishing off chances he has created. Again, a factual statement and proof below. Sometimes it’s just better to admit that the shiny toy that’s been bought ain’t so shiny, and never will be. That was how it was built and that’s how it is going to be. Facts are what I have put in front of you, collective facts, just like most professional footballers he will create a chance. But when you look at those facts, he’s way down that list too. Two seasons ago he played a decent game or two, that’s one of the arguments you put forward. He’s been at best mediocre, in my eyes worse than that, and to compound it we have got rid of someone who in my opinion beats-up Fernandez every occasion. Then, there’s his ‘character’ to throw into the mix. There’s something rotten about our club and he personifies a good bit of that, in a number of ways. We paid Ferrari money for a Ford Focus, that’s not his fault but he needs shifting on. We need our car to operate in the Formula 1 arena, he can’t cope and needs to operate at Formula 2. If you’ve not cut it in two seasons and a bit with the amount of games he’s played, you’re not cutting it. He huffs and puffs around the pitch but isn’t positively effecting outcomes. My eyes, plus the stats tell me that. It has been a signing of the Sutton, Fleck, Torres, Shevchenko level of failure. Like the last two he was a bit of a ‘vanity’ signing. But, time will tell. I’d like to be wrong, but I doubt it based on performance thus far. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said: Enzo might be the worst transfer we’ve ever been involved with. How quickly you've forgotten Lukaku. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 and Sutton ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 I would have mentioned Les Fridge and Winston Bogarde, but both were free transfers. It still costs wages, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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