Chelsea owners and board

[Bert19]

On 22/09/2023 at 07:00, ROTG said:

Please stop these strawman bizarre strawman's

All the players you say were over paid, were all part of successful teams, which won trophies, helped in securing tier 1 sponsorship deals, qualified for CL football, TV monies etc ,etc season after season.. which intern increased the revenue to the club and therefore offset the additional wages. It is simple mathematics.

Lets see how the above mentioned revenue streams pan out over the next couple of seasons?  Not forgetting any of the NKOTB do not make the grade and become a dud, 100k over 8 years is far more expensive than say Pullisic 

They were also part of teams that did a very good job of losing finals that they should have won with relative ease (as well as being a bit unlucky in 2 vs Liverpool).  And struggled to make CL qualification one more than one occasion - even being saved from ourselves by the worst club in the world in 2021. 

They categorically didn't win as much as they should have or were expected to.  

Be honest, without Tuchel being absolutely spot-on tactically and winning that CL in 2021, can any of us really look at the last 5 years of Roman's tenure and say we were as successful as we should have been? I genuinely cannot see how anyone can make the argument that we were. 

Instead, we were able to celebrate a CL that no one saw coming whilst losing 3 very winnable FA Cup finals poorly and failing to challenge for the title at all. 

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Everyone was lauding them both during the transfer window but when players fail to perform, it's the owner's fault.  

Cannot believe how cleanly the players are getting away with it.  

Poor decisions, poor final balls, poor finishing.  Not necessarily by the younger players either.  

Fine margins.  

Agree totally. We're creating good chances, but there has been some absolutely criminal finishing and decision-making when it's counted.  Feel sorry for the manager on that front at least. 

51 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Very interesting piece.
Not sure what it is with Martin Samuel, he seems to be the only journalist out there that can look at football, and specifically look at Chelsea, and write as if his brain is still attached.
Odd that he moved from the Mail, where they do hit the mark on occasion if not often, to the Times which never does - apparently by policy.

Boehly out makes enormous sense.  At least Boehly moved internally within Clearlake and another person taking his place perhaps from the football world or perhaps with different advisers and a different approach.
These things can always be managed to assuage egos.

Target the weak link

Would definitely make sense if things don't improve - whilst also likely saving Clearklake some unwanted public reputational damage (though they now can't get away scot-free with it). 

[Dwmh]

5 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Clearklake

ClearLark.  Clear Rake.  Clerk Ache
becoming like Me Relish. Gotta be something better. 

I'm gonna use Cream Cake for a while.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dwmh

[Max Fowler]

20 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

They were also part of teams that did a very good job of losing finals that they should have won with relative ease (as well as being a bit unlucky in 2 vs Liverpool).  And struggled to make CL qualification one more than one occasion - even being saved from ourselves by the worst club in the world in 2021. 

They categorically didn't win as much as they should have or were expected to.  

Be honest, without Tuchel being absolutely spot-on tactically and winning that CL in 2021, can any of us really look at the last 5 years of Roman's tenure and say we were as successful as we should have been? I genuinely cannot see how anyone can make the argument that we were. 

Instead, we were able to celebrate a CL that no one saw coming whilst losing 3 very winnable FA Cup finals poorly and failing to challenge for the title at all. 

I just don't get this argument at all.

We all agree we didn't look like challenging for the title any time soon under Roman.

Fine, let's move on.

The fact of the matter is we have gone far backwards even from there under this board.

Some still believe we are planting longer-term roots that will bear greater fruit eventually.

I now believe this board doesn't know what it's doing at all and we're just going backwards.

Until the investors replace Boehly & Eghbali this slump will continue.

[Ham]

13 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I just don't get this argument at all.

We all agree we didn't look like challenging for the title any time soon under Roman.

Fine, let's move on.

The fact of the matter is we have gone far backwards even from there under this board.

Some still believe we are planting longer-term roots that will bear greater fruit eventually.

I now believe this board doesn't know what it's doing at all and we're just going backwards.

Until the investors replace Boehly & Eghbali this slump will continue.

I think you're overplaying the roles currently being played by both. 

Unless I hear to the contrary, I'll assume that the footballing board are identifying targets and that Eghbali only gets wheeled out to negotiate the larger deals.  Boehly is hands-off and has been since the first window. 

I think it's lazy when fans and the media constantly single out Boehly specifically. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Ham

[thevelourfog]

37 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 @Ham

The results matter. Who we have played matters. I hate to bang on about it but you jut can't lose to Forest at home, drop points at Bournemouth and lose to West Ham. It signals a bigger problem that few of us predicted.

Weird, just finding out you can't delete tags when editing down quotes?

Just for clarity, I am not claiming to have foreseen this start or be right about much of anything. I thought it'd be a hard year  but not that we'd win only one of our first six and look exactly as bad, in nature and severity, as we did last year. It is precisely because what is happening on the pitch, the bit I can see, is so much worse than could have been reasonably predicted that I have to think think instead about what I can't see. Almost everything these owners have done since September 2022 has stunk, and even the few good things have in some way been brash or amateurish. I genuinely think the best we can hope for is they go, in some form or another, and that there is a top flight club left at the end of it.

[Dwmh]

3 minutes ago, Ham said:

I think your overplaying the roles currently being played by both. 

Unless I hear to the contrary, I'll assume that the footballing board are identifying targets and that Eghbali only gets wheeled out to negotiate the larger deals.  Boehly is hands-off and has been since the first window. 

I think it's lazy when fans and the media constantly single out Boehly specifically. 

If the operational managers are not talking to each other and working to a coherent play then the CEO carries the can whether he is turning up to work or not.

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Weird, just finding out you can't delete tags when editing down quotes?

I could but you might have to include some text on either side to delete with it.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dwmh

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

I think your overplaying the roles currently being played by both. 

Unless I hear to the contrary, I'll assume that the footballing board are identifying targets and that Eghbali only gets wheeled out to negotiate the larger deals.  Boehly is hands-off and has been since the first window. 

I think it's lazy when fans and the media constantly single out Boehly specifically. 

I agree with the latter in general and we are guilty of saying this is just Boehly.

But in terms of the vision for this entire project, I would say Boehly has had a highly influential part in it. The strategy of buying young, getting a project manager in for a number of years etc., all comes from his copybook of previous sports ownership.

What I am saying is (as Samuel speculates) maybe Boehly could take the hit for this project, we retain Clearlake capital, Wyss and everyone else and we pivot to a more traditional way of running a successful Premier League club with a new chairman.

That way we keep the investment but we shift the "project" to something new and better-functioning.

 

[Ham]

2 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

If the operational managers are not talking to each other and working to a coherent play then the CEO carries the can whether he is turning up to work or not.

 

That would be harsh in the case of an American who knows zero about football. 

As long as they appointed the right people then it's the footballing board that takes the blame IMO. 

[Ham]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I agree with the latter in general and we are guilty of saying this is just Boehly.

But in terms of the vision for this entire project, I would say Boehly has had a highly influential part in it. The strategy of buying young, getting a project manager in for a number of years etc., all comes from his copybook of previous sports ownership.

What I am saying is (as Samuel speculates) maybe Boehly could take the hit for this project, we retain Clearlake capital, Wyss and everyone else and we pivot to a more traditional way of running a successful Premier League club with a new chairman.

That way we keep the investment but we shift the "project" to something new and better-functioning.

 

This was always a risky strategy from the club and, for better or worse, we're all in.  

I don't think we can just change strategy now as we have a large number of players on long contracts.

At best, we tweak one or two positions each window from now on and see how it goes.

The next couple of signings need to be PL battle-hardened pros.  

[ROTG]

57 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

They were also part of teams that did a very good job of losing finals that they should have won with relative ease (as well as being a bit unlucky in 2 vs Liverpool).  And struggled to make CL qualification one more than one occasion - even being saved from ourselves by the worst club in the world in 2021. 

They categorically didn't win as much as they should have or were expected to.  

Be honest, without Tuchel being absolutely spot-on tactically and winning that CL in 2021, can any of us really look at the last 5 years of Roman's tenure and say we were as successful as we should have been? I genuinely cannot see how anyone can make the argument that we were. 

Instead, we were able to celebrate a CL that no one saw coming whilst losing 3 very winnable FA Cup finals poorly and failing to challenge for the title at all. 

Regardless of whether they should won more, the bottom line is they were part of a successful team which generated revenue over and above anything the club has been able generate over the past two seasons regardless of the club bring in top draw commercial consultants. 

As I said it going to be interesting to see the published figure of commercial revenue streams in the coming seasons.

[ROTG]

33 minutes ago, Ham said:

Unless I hear to the contrary, I'll assume that the footballing board are identifying targets and that Eghbali only gets wheeled out to negotiate the larger deals.  Boehly is hands-off and has been since the first window. 

Straight off football therapy 

[ROTG]

22 minutes ago, Ham said:

The next couple of signings need to be PL battle-hardened pros.  

Might as well bring in David Moyes to coach the team. 
 

unless there is some kind of miracle between now and January. You will not get any quality players unless they are mercenaries.

The ship for top draw PL players would have sailed. 

[Max Fowler]

51 minutes ago, Ham said:

This was always a risky strategy from the club and, for better or worse, we're all in.  

I don't think we can just change strategy now as we have a large number of players on long contracts.

At best, we tweak one or two positions each window from now on and see how it goes.

The next couple of signings need to be PL battle-hardened pros.  

I reject this notion - I think this is pure sunk cost fallacy.

Yes, we may have to dig ourselves out of the financial hole we are in selling some of our new youngsters.

But fundamentally we need to get back to the basics of challenging for Premier League titles.

Stop investing in youth now - or invest the vast majority of near-term fees into experienced players.

Admit where you went wrong. Start the youth project again when the wheels are turning.

Boehly and Eghbali may need to leave to make this happen. They are too stubborn to change.

[ROTG]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I reject this notion - I think this is pure sunk cost fallacy.

Yes, we may have to dig ourselves out of the financial hole we are in selling some of our new youngsters.

But fundamentally we need to get back to the basics of challenging for Premier League titles.

Stop investing in youth now - or invest the vast majority of near-term fees into experienced players.

Admit where you went wrong. Start the youth project again when the wheels are turning.

Boehly and Eghbali may need to leave to make this happen. They are too stubborn to change.

Unless there is devine intervention which I ask for day in day out.
The club has gone down a path, where a 180 degree turn would need the club to go back to the Bates era of bringing in established player near there sell buy date to get the club back into European contention in order to attract the top players. 
 

it took the dippers 30’years to win the PL

The arse are on year 20

ManUre are into double figures

that Is the real indicator what happens when top teams owners have epiphanies.

[Max Fowler]

Article on Eghbali's dressing room visits: https://archive.ph/XvoGI

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

Article on Eghbali's dressing room visits: https://archive.ph/XvoGI

Wishng them luck? What a scamp. 

[chara]

We all as long time Football watchers/players have a built in awareness of the Game at all levels and an understanding of the subtleties of the game and game environment World wide. Different view points and takes but the same instinctive knowledge generally.

Not so Todd and Co...my simple assessment is their understanding of the game is built on the USA models of the major sports.

NO RELEGATION ISSUES. This takes out a lot of the oxygen from the administration problems,especially in MLS, and leads to a very "business" orientated scenario.... pour money into a failing side and there is no risk of a catastrophic fall from grace, 

New MLS "franchises" are just that..not grass roots beginnings from waaay back. More like taking a franchise on a McDonalds based on business finance return potential.

Watching NFL (and other sports here) in a desultory sort of way there is little total fan connection to individual players as we know it, more to a team as far as I can see...,,,most connections are to elite players and very few have long term team loyalty,,,certainly the journeyman players move on a regular basis and are not mourned in the same way players are in our game...as ever a chara oversimplification but may be a little insight into our leaders basic business approach to Chelsea as an asset.

The issue for me is will "they" see the difference and adjust or just keep ploughing on as a "business" venture without the heart of the game,social, business and culture issues all combined, understood.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

That would be harsh in the case of an American who knows zero about football. 

As long as they appointed the right people then it's the footballing board that takes the blame IMO. 

Not in real business - it is the people that appointed them that takes the blame.
And then the new guy is expected to shake out the whole team.

 

1 hour ago, Ham said:

I don't think we can just change strategy now as we have a large number of players on long contracts.

At best, we tweak one or two positions each window from now on and see how it goes.

The next couple of signings need to be PL battle-hardened pros.  

Which is precisely the problem.
We have entered a no exit strategy.  And the Cream cake guys chose it.
Yes we need players aged 25+ who have learnt to play without relying on high short term confidence levels.

All we can do is accept the screwed up and wait 5 years before we can have a balanced senior team  (and hope the better ones don't go on strike to get out - I would).
 

26 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I reject this notion - I think this is pure sunk cost fallacy.

Yes, we may have to dig ourselves out of the financial hole we are in selling some of our new youngsters.

But fundamentally we need to get back to the basics of challenging for Premier League titles.

Stop investing in youth now - or invest the vast majority of near-term fees into experienced players.

Admit where you went wrong. Start the youth project again when the wheels are turning.

Boehly and Eghbali may need to leave to make this happen. They are too stubborn to change.

Trouble is that Cream Cakes haven't committed us to historic Fixed costs, they have committed us to on going operational costs.  I mean the contracts, not the depreciation which is sunk.

Removing those contracts means moving on players.  My problem with that is that I suspect the Cream Cakers are no better at judging who to sell than they have been judging who to buy.  And in any case the real problem is not the players but something deeper (who knows, but attitude, medics, coaching, focus, having idiotic top management - a lot will be familiar with that).

Buying Salah, Lukaku and KdB and then flogging them makes genuine sense if: you sell them for a profit, you do it to focus on winning a PL title, you have players who are currently performing much better.  that is not the same as selling any of the current lot.
Adding a few senior pros like Kovacic or Ziyech would make sense though.

[My Blood Is Blue]

Quote from William Gallas below. He is absolutely right, in my opinion.

 "Chelsea have failed. The board have failed again. They will not achieve their targets this season. When you spend the kind of money that Chelsea have, you’re expecting to sign players that have achieved something.

"There are a handful of experienced players at Chelsea. The club decided to invest heavily in young talent. Chelsea is not like Southampton or Brighton where you give opportunities to young players to give them experience. This is Chelsea Football Club. They need players who are ready to make the difference every single week. 

"With all the money spent, when you consider the stature and size of the club, they will fail. It is that simple. "I played in a Chelsea legends game last weekend, and 'I think that some of these players are still good enough to play for Chelsea this season.

"That shows you that Chelsea are in trouble. That shows you some of these players are not ready to play for a club like Chelsea, and some of them do not have the quality to play for a club like Chelsea."

[My Blood Is Blue]

Makelele leaving his role as technical mentor by mutual decision… another link to our past gone.

[Mark Kelly]

20 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Makelele leaving his role as technical mentor by mutual decision… another link to our past gone.

It was all HIS fault! 

He's probably got standards or something. 

[thevelourfog]

31 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Makelele leaving his role as technical mentor by mutual decision… another link to our past gone.

Always a strange role for someone who had been an assistant coach at a high level, tbh. Wonder if he's got a more senior job offer.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Always a strange role for someone who had been an assistant coach at a high level, tbh. Wonder if he's got a more senior job offer.

... and gone there with Potter's No 2, Bruno Salter.

[Rob B]

Interesting discussion on the subject of who’s to blame for the mess so far.  As ever, it’s not a black & white one and the answer is probably somewhere between the Owners and the SD’s.

For example, decisions such as the ridiculous long contracts (in some cases) and the u25s only policy, I see as more linked to the business strategy and therefore I’d associate with the owners.  This is turn,  might have ruled us out of the running for a James Maddison or L Martinez or whoever.  The owners also picked the SDs following a recruitment & selection process, so they’re their choices to run the football side of the club and therefore they hold some accountability for appointing those people. 

The flipside however is that I’m sure Todd Boehly didn’t tell the SDs to sign Caicedo, Lavia, Santos and Big Les, whilst only signing Nicolas Jackson as a number 9.   In the same way that Egbali isn’t scouting Cucerella, Disasi and Mudryk.  If rumours are to be believed the SDs  picked the manager, so  depending on your personal view on Poch, will probably depend on where you apportion the most blame.

In terms of who will carry the can…. That will be down to Clearlake and their interpretation of where we have gone wrong.  And I would say it could go genuinely either way. 

Of course, there is another outcome here, which I think is more likely;  and that’s we persevere until January, sign a striker, and maybe even enter the loan market (ie like we did Felix this year). I suspect we will see a few departures from the likes of Maatsen, Chalobah, Cucerella, possibly Broja on loan etc and we will try to spend our way out of trouble like we usually do….

Edited September 25, 2023 by Rob B
Typo

[Max Fowler]

Was speaking about this with my dad - does the fact that we still don't have a shirt sponsor indicate the chaos that has become of our club? What the hell is going on - every other club has managed to get one and what are we faffing around with? Losing revenue every game and penny pinching fans to make up the difference. The definition of shoddy management.