Chelsea_Matt Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 50 minutes ago, kev61 said: It's the fundmentals that drive me insane.How can vvd score again in the same situation from a corner kick. Forget XG and the rest of the bollox it is poor coaching. Poor coaching and stupid players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Ok Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Max Fowler said: Ok Todd They picked the wrong guy to facilitate this in Mauricio Hopperchino 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea_Matt Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 19 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Ok Todd What a nothing statement. 🫡🤣💀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, east lower said: Real football people, if you really need an explanation? Have experience of both playing and operating outside of the playing arena at the highest level - like Jason Wilcox. Like Edu at Arsenal. You wouldn’t want a travel agent to be a jet-engine maintenance engineer, but I this is what the football world is doing - all PowerPoint and tablets/laptops and xG. Football remains a game played by humans and the nuances and variables that humans have. Data based tripe, promoted by data-based charlatans who just are more hangers-on draining the clubs of more money (a fool and their money are easily parted)unfortunately are part of the game and it’s no better for it generally. He makes this run then, he shoots left 80% of the time at penalties, may have some merit. It’s probably data based b***ocks that dumbass based his opinions on how we defend corners, perhaps that’s why Enzo was matched up against a centre-half or Berge at corners on Saturday - 5ft 9’ ish against 6ft 5’. The eyes say no, data based tripe says yes. Dumbass reckons data has us in fourth 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Proves my point Ahh, so you're only a "real football person" if you meet your own personally made up criteria. There's just as many that tick your criteria that are thicker than a bowl of porridge when it comes to football. The reality is, and I said this before, none of us know what data is being compiled, much less how it's been utilised and to what degree. It's such a broad spectrum argument anyway, because using data to make decisions can be based on something as simple as scouting a striker and using their goals per minute ratio to build a report. On the other hand it could be a collection of other more detailed and nuanced information that's then processed and used. Again, you may not like data but it's been a long standing aspect of many sports American or otherwise, including, and this may be difficult to accept, football. Edited April 2 by JaneB personal insult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, xceleryx said: Ahh, so you're only a "real football person" if you meet your own personally made up criteria. There's just as many that tick your criteria that are thicker than a bowl of porridge when it comes to football. The reality is, and I said this before, none of us know what data is being compiled, much less how it's been utilised and to what degree. It's such a broad spectrum argument anyway, because using data to make decisions can be based on something as simple as scouting a striker and using their goals per minute ratio to build a report. On the other hand it could be a collection of other more detailed and nuanced information that's then processed and used. Again, you may not like data but it's been a long standing aspect of many sports American or otherwise, including, and this may be difficult to accept, football. I think there's room for both viewpoints , I think @east lower is suggesting we're top loaded with one type and have very little if none of the other and to be fair to him the squad looks like it's been put together entirely on the data and not with building something that is greater than the sum of its parts. And given to a dullard to train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, xceleryx said: Ahh, so you're only a "real football person" if you meet your own personally made up criteria. There's just as many that tick your criteria that are thicker than a bowl of porridge when it comes to football. The reality is, and I said this before, none of us know what data is being compiled, much less how it's been utilised and to what degree. It's such a broad spectrum argument anyway, because using data to make decisions can be based on something as simple as scouting a striker and using their goals per minute ratio to build a report. On the other hand it could be a collection of other more detailed and nuanced information that's then processed and used. Again, you may not like data but it's been a long standing aspect of many sports American or otherwise, including, and this may be difficult to accept, football. And I've got the feeling I'm talking to someone who's not got the first clue about the real game, but is a champion on his simulation - Let's leave it at that. By the way, your pigeon-holing phrase is far from acceptable and is offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: I think there's room for both viewpoints , I think @east lower is suggesting we're top loaded with one type and have very little if none of the other and to be fair to him the squad looks like it's been put together entirely on the data and not with building something that is greater than the sum of its parts. And given to a dullard to train Which I would agree with, there's room for both data and more old school approaches to co-exist. Flat out dismissing one or the other is, to be put it bluntly, ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 29 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: They picked the wrong guy to facilitate this in Mauricio Hopperchino If it's so self-evident Potch is a dud you should be laying into the owners for hiring him in the first place and sticking with him for so long, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Max Fowler said: If it's so self-evident Potch is a dud you should be laying into the owners for hiring him in the first place and sticking with him for so long, Mark. Well I would but they won't listen to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 6 minutes ago, east lower said: And I've got the feeling I'm talking to someone who's not got the first clue about the real game, but is a champion on his simulation - Let's leave it at that. Quite the assumption to be making, but if you still want football to operate like it did in 1920 you're going to be sorely disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, xceleryx said: Ahh, so you're only a "real football person" if you meet your own personally made up criteria. There's just as many that tick your criteria that are thicker than a bowl of porridge when it comes to football. The reality is, and I said this before, none of us know what data is being compiled, much less how it's been utilised and to what degree. It's such a broad spectrum argument anyway, because using data to make decisions can be based on something as simple as scouting a striker and using their goals per minute ratio to build a report. On the other hand it could be a collection of other more detailed and nuanced information that's then processed and used. Again, you may not like data but it's been a long standing aspect of many sports American or otherwise, including, and this may be difficult to accept, football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Max Fowler said: No shit, not claiming data is the be all that ends all. Cute that you're trying to make a point though. 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 35 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Ok Todd Define the process Todd, tell us by when all this is happening. Who's in charge of what? What's the limit of the responsibility of the people involved and why are we almost two seasons in and are basically a point better off than last season - despite you throwing hundreds of millions of pounds at 'the project/process'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, xceleryx said: No shit, not claiming data is the be all that ends all. Cute that you're trying to make a point though. 😅 I think there's fair reason to be worried about how the club now uses data, particularly given that we've received briefings about it all season - along the lines of the latest claim from mouthpiece Poch that we should be 4th based on the stats instead of 11th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I think there's fair reason to be worried about how the club now uses data, particularly given that we've received briefings about it all season - along the lines of the latest claim from mouthpiece Poch that we should be 4th based on the stats instead of 11th. None of us know anything about the data being collected, how it's being processed, or applied when it comes to decision making. This applies to all the twitter thumbs and journos that love to bait people in for clicks. The only balanced argument to be had here from a generalisation point is that there's room for both data and more classic and conventional methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, xceleryx said: None of us know anything about the data being collected, how it's being processed, or applied when it comes to decision making. This applies to all the twitter thumbs and journos that love to bait people in for clicks. The only balanced argument to be had here from a generalisation point is that there's room for both data and more classic and conventional methods. I am not sure what motive the journalists would have in saying that we are looking at Anthony Gordon because he has the best data for a young player in the league, or we are not worried about our position because the data suggests we should be higher up the table (especially when Poch has literally just come out and said just that). Yes there is room for data, but given our owner comes from a completely data-dominated sport, many of the players we have been linked with have been briefed in terms of their stats and our predicament consistently excused along the same lines, it's completely balanced to worry about our use of data and if our leadership team really know how to utilize it at an elite level. Edited April 2 by Max Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, xceleryx said: Quite the assumption to be making, Physician heal thyself.............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 37 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I am not sure what motive the journalists would have in saying that we are looking at Anthony Gordon because he has the best data for a young player in the league, or we are not worried about our position because the data suggests we should be higher up the table (especially when Poch has literally just come out and said just that). Yes there is room for data, but given our owner comes from a completely data-dominated sport, many of the players we have been linked with have been briefed in terms of their stats and our predicament consistently excused along the same lines, it's completely balanced to worry about our use of data and if our leadership team really know how to utilize it at an elite level. The thing is everyone is using data led analysis to some degree it's not just us , where we could be (because none of us know for certain) falling short is that we have very little else to go by as all the old "football" people were punted / left once Clearlake took over. We have scouts too but again , I know nothing about their efficacy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Max Fowler said: Who is this guy? He seems to know something about football 🤨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, east lower said: Define the process Todd, tell us by when all this is happening. Who's in charge of what? What's the limit of the responsibility of the people involved and why are we almost two seasons in and are basically a point better off than last season - despite you throwing hundreds of millions of pounds at 'the project/process'. Exactly - a statement about nothing. I mean yeah, they need time, but it does not happen automatically, can he exlpain more how it will be achieved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 59 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I am not sure what motive the journalists would have in saying that we are looking at Anthony Gordon because he has the best data for a young player in the league, or we are not worried about our position because the data suggests we should be higher up the table (especially when Poch has literally just come out and said just that). Yes there is room for data, but given our owner comes from a completely data-dominated sport, many of the players we have been linked with have been briefed in terms of their stats and our predicament consistently excused along the same lines, it's completely balanced to worry about our use of data and if our leadership team really know how to utilize it at an elite level. My take on this data topic is that football is far far more less predictable game than Baseball when you are using data. There is just an infinite number of variables in football, so you can of course rely on the data a bit, but then there are thing that data will never cover. That is why I love that video from Pep. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 44 minutes ago, Bones said: My take on this data topic is that football is far far more less predictable game than Baseball when you are using data. There is just an infinite number of variables in football, so you can of course rely on the data a bit, but then there are thing that data will never cover. That is why I love that video from Pep. Ironically the data that we have the youngest squad in the league is one of the biggest issues. But that piece of data is not being weighted heavily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 58 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: The thing is everyone is using data led analysis to some degree it's not just us , where we could be (because none of us know for certain) falling short is that we have very little else to go by as all the old "football" people were punted / left once Clearlake took over. We have scouts too but again , I know nothing about their efficacy . It is in my opinion, partly that the people we have hired are not elite level football people, but also that the owners have set a culture of us being data driven almost at all costs and so our sporting directors are making decisions based on that culture and not daring to think for themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 14 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: It is in my opinion, partly that the people we have hired are not elite level football people, but also that the owners have set a culture of us being data driven almost at all costs and so our sporting directors are making decisions based on that culture and not daring to think for themselves. Well , you may be right , who knows , personally I think most of the players are at the very least half-way decent and we should be seeing better performances from them than we are and I personally believe that's at least ninety percent (if I'm being kind) on the Spacehopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now