Ham Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 2 hours ago, ROTG said: I want to tell you a story The Last time i visited a windmill in Amsterdam, i saw mouse on the stairs with clogs on Why would stairs be wearing clogs? Insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Ham said: Why would stairs be wearing clogs? Insane. At the time of writing that song the composer was eating marshmallow pies with rocking horse people real Lucy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ham said: Why would stairs be wearing clogs? Insane. Absolute Double Dutch, @Sciatika,,,Tu Lips ? surely that was something to do with a lady in "Mash"? 🪖🌷🌷 Edited July 19 by chara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Nearly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 12 hours ago, Bison said: Ahh of course, more jobs for the boys. Even more jobs for the boys. At what point do Clearlake and Boehly realise they're being had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 19/07/2024 at 22:00, Bison said: Even more jobs for the boys. At what point do Clearlake and Boehly realise they're being had? Are they able to appoint anyone without it being "jobs for the boys"? What does or doesn't qualify? Genuinely don't get it, as you post the same phrase whenever anyone is appointed into any role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 19 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Are they able to appoint anyone without it being "jobs for the boys"? What does or doesn't qualify? Genuinely don't get it, as you post the same phrase whenever anyone is appointed into any role. Maybe it because when there is a vacancy, companies advertise the job in order to get the best candidate. “Even the FA are doing this for the next England coach”. How many of the appointments at the club past 18 months since the gruesome twosome have been at the helm, have gone through that process. Chelsea has become jobs for friends and ex-colleagues of Winstanley and Stewart. happy to be proved wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 This stuff goes on in most industries/sectors. Head-hunting, agencies/recruitment. Even if you go through the advertising route and follow due process/procedure. The person who someone of influence wants to get the job will do, unless the candidate drops a massive faux-pas. The worry for me is, who’s going to challenge the pair of them if required. Surrounding yourself with subservience isn’t healthy for any business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 19/07/2024 at 22:00, Bison said: Even more jobs for the boys. At what point do Clearlake and Boehly realise they're being had? Blueco is looking to be a far more possession based group. Liam Rosenior had superb possession stats with a micro-budget for Hull. Hopefully a more joined up approach for both clubs from kids to first team. Seems a logical appointment to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 21 minutes ago, Ham said: Blueco is looking to be a far more possession based group. Liam Rosenior had superb possession stats with a micro-budget for Hull. Hopefully a more joined up approach for both clubs from kids to first team. Seems a logical appointment to me. What level his French like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 49 minutes ago, ROTG said: What level his French like? Is this English? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 hours ago, paulw66 said: Are they able to appoint anyone without it being "jobs for the boys"? What does or doesn't qualify? Genuinely don't get it, as you post the same phrase whenever anyone is appointed into any role. I've used the phrase any time they've appointed somebody from their limited book of contacts instead of getting the best available person. That I've had to say it so much is telling. 1 hour ago, Ham said: Blueco is looking to be a far more possession based group. Liam Rosenior had superb possession stats with a micro-budget for Hull. Hopefully a more joined up approach for both clubs from kids to first team. Seems a logical appointment to me. Watch a lot of Hull then? How do they play? What's the build up play like? What do the fullbacks do in and out of possession? This is your usual line of questioning so thought I'd give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 hours ago, Bison said: I've used the phrase any time they've appointed somebody from their limited book of contacts instead of getting the best available person. That I've had to say it so much is telling. Watch a lot of Hull then? How do they play? What's the build up play like? What do the fullbacks do in and out of possession? This is your usual line of questioning so thought I'd give it a try. Touche' 👍🏻 Not watched a minute of them but read quotes by other coaches in the Championship, extolling his virtues as a possession-obsessed coach. We haven't had an identity as a club for a while. If we and Strasbourg are aligned, that can only be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 11 hours ago, Ham said: Touche' 👍🏻 Not watched a minute of them but read quotes by other coaches in the Championship, extolling his virtues as a possession-obsessed coach. We haven't had an identity as a club for a while. If we and Strasbourg are aligned, that can only be good. Thank you for admitting you're just singing from the Clearlake hymm sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Bison said: Thank you for admitting you're just singing from the Clearlake hymm sheet. Not sure that's what I did but even if I had, no different to your knee-jerk criticism of anything coming out of the club. This forum needs balance. This season will tell whether or not we have built a good squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Si Phillips Talks Chelsea 1 Enough bad decisions: Accountability and communication is needed, now... The treatment of Trevoh Chalobah is a symptom of a bigger problem THE SCORE JUL 23, 2024 I’ve defended the ownership of the club since the beginning. I did and still can see their long term vision for the club, for success investing the best young talent in the world and developing them into an elite team, and I understand it takes time. I also understand how when we don’t have Champions League money, in the short term, we might need to sell some players, maybe ones we don’t want, in order to comply with the rules. That’s just reality. However, the news about Trevoh Chalobah being left behind from the US tour to intentionally force him out of the club, is a tipping point for me. Trevoh has done nothing wrong for Chelsea. He went on loan, he developed, he earned his spot in the squad and the team, and has generally performed when he’s played for Chelsea. He’s a leader, a good pro and sets a good example. He’s won two trophies at Chelsea as a starter, the European Super Cup and Club World Cup. He’s been at Chelsea his whole life. There’s no reason to sell him. I’d arguably keep him over Conor Gallagher, given his versatility and our desire for “swiss army knife” players. He can play RCB, RB, and DM well. He has played in a back 3 and a back 4. He’s excellent on the ball. He’s arguably ready made for Maresca’s system. There’s other players we can sell for the same money (about £25-30m). But that’s not even the worst thing. The worst thing, is no player who has given what he has for the club, who has won things as a starter, who has been loyal and professional and expressed no desire to leave, should be treated like this. He’s being forced out of the club. This is bad in itself, but its a symptom of a bigger problem at the club. One of lack of communication, no accountability and poor handling of players and staff at director level. This, as it often seems to be, is largely the responsibility of Paul Winstanley and Laurence Stewart, the two sporting directors. This falls under their remit, so it’s their responsibility. It’s become clear to me that at least one if not both of them have no idea how to manage people or have healthy human relationships. This is not how you treat people, generally. It’s cold, heartless and disrespectful. Personally, my view is if they really can’t see how good Trev is, they clearly aren’t the experts they claim to be, because we can all see how good Trev is, and the intangibles he has. But this cuts a lot deeper, to some concerns many fans have. I see a LOT of fans on twitter. I listen and I talk to several. One of the most rational, patient, intelligent fans I know, who’s always backed the owners, told me today is he is now afraid for the future of the club. They, as well as many fans, are concerned that the necessary focus on increasing revenue has gone too far, and taken priority over the football, and the good of the team. Making Chelsea profitable and financially compliant IS important, but the football should ALWAYS be the focus and main goal. We have a CEO in Chris Jarosek, who made fun of the clubs fans, who calls us customers, and who is freezing a lot of fans out with price rises (I only caveat that by saying the price rises themselves were expected, but it was handled poorly), got rid of subsidised away buses, and has shown he has no knowledge of football or football culture, or how to run a football club. A football club is not like a normal business, it takes specific skillset, and although he has business acumen, he’s not a football person. We have sporting directors who are excellent at spotting talent and pretty good at making smart signings, but have no idea how to either run an elite sporting operation or manage people. They often appear to treat our players like commodities, not human beings. Some owners and directors read this, so take note. You are losing the fans. More than you think. Many fans are beginning to feel like the owners just don’t care about success on the pitch, don’t respect either fans or players, and only care about money. Whether it’s true or not, with respect, people like Jarosek and even Behdad Eghbali at times come across as not having any kind of understanding or respect for football culture. This may be just an issue of communication, but that’s the impression given. People like Barbara Charone and Daniel Finklestein, both non executive directors and long time Chelsea fans, are doing an amazing job in their respective roles. They are the only ones in senior roles who seem to have a deep passion, love and understanding of Chelsea FC and football culture. They should be listened to and be given a lot more influence, for me. Many fans are tired of PR briefings which are clearly not the truth. We’re not fools, we can tell. We’re tired of being patronised. We’re tired of the ownership not communicating honestly and properly with us. The letters in the programme notes last season were positive and a step forward, and I’m grateful for this, but that was not and never will be enough. Given what's happened on the pitch in the last two years, fans are owed an explanation for many decisions, an apology for the mistakes, and some insight into the ambitions, goals and vision for Chelsea, directly to fans on the club channels. This is now non negotiable. Fans are running out of patience. Paul Winstanley and Laurence Stewart should be held accountable for the last 18 months and for treatment of some players and staff. Yes, they have done some good things, I would never deny this, I’ve even talked about on this site. This isn’t a witch hunt and I’ll always try to be balanced. Some of the hires and signings they’ve made have been positive for Chelsea. But, there have been some major mistakes, and Winstanley and Stewart need to own their mistakes, take responsibility and show they’ve learned their lessons. Aggressively forcing players out of the club who don’t want to leave, who’ve been good servants and good professionals, with poor disrespectful treatment is classless, and in my view, not in the spirit of Chelsea. Whatever people thought of Mauricio Pochettino as a coach, they did the same with him by essentially not communicating with him for months and never backing him. They’ve been openly trying to sell Conor Gallagher for 18 months. There were even some unconfirmed stories (I’m not saying these are true, but these stories did surface at the time), on how the departure of Jim Fraser, a long time servant to the club, was not handled well. This shows a pattern of behaviour, and its not healthy or acceptable. This is not elite level executive management of a football club. This is not how big, ambitious, serious football clubs operate. If you want to sell a player or want a manager or staff member out, no problem, but handle it with class and dignity. I still believe in the owners ambitions and vision for the club, but the optics are awful right now and the treatment of some staff - including players - by those at the top, doesn’t appear to be good at times. If it is, and there’s another side to the story, then fine, but its certainly not the impression being given to fans. If this season doesn’t go well again, the fans aren’t going to just take it, and a change of manager won’t cut it either. There will need to be changes at a higher level and if no explanation is forthcoming, fans won’t be hesitant to show their feelings, hopefully in a respectful but decisive way. We are not customers. We love our club. We have a lifetime emotional investment in the club. We’re going to be here, and we want the best for our club. The fans' voices must always be respected and listened to. We really do want to work with the owners for the benefit of the club, we want to collaborate and get behind our team. But we need to know what's coming from the club is professional, to a high standard of football and professionalism, demonstrating clear ambition, and in good faith. We need to be able to trust the owners and directors. I still trust the owners ambitions and know our sporting directors can spot talent and buy smart well. I have full faith in Joe Shields more than anyone, and am glad he is getting more influence. But I’m starting to lose trust in our two sporting directors to run the club well. Many fans have lost trust in the entire ownership, and it will take a lot to win it back. I’d like to think both owners, directors and fans all want what’s good for Chelsea. But there are legitimate and founded concerns, which must be addressed. The Score 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 54 minutes ago, Ham said: This season will tell whether or not we have built a good squad. Could not agree more Dumber and Dumber have now restructure the entire mens team and academy with their people, including a yes man coach for them to influence, they are also responsible for the restructuring of the women team including the new coach, along with the french club Lets see if there are any improvements on last season in all department, with bars being in place to measure against 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) Do we have any idea about Chalobah's stance on a move? How do we know he's not actively seeking one and welcomes being able to focus on one? You could certainly see why he'd want to go. The idea this is the straw that broke the horse's back for some people is, honestly, hilarious. We don't know enough to know that it's even a thing that Chalobah is being "forced out" against his wishes, and the indifference to the fans or any kind of club values has been bash-you-over-the-head obvious from about 3 days in. Edited July 23 by thevelourfog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Singleton Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, ROTG said: Si Phillips Talks Chelsea Enough bad decisions: Accountability and communication is needed, now... The treatment of Trevoh Chalobah is a symptom of a bigger problem THE SCORE JUL 23, 2024 [SNIP] However, the news about Trevoh Chalobah being left behind from the US tour to intentionally force him out of the club, is a tipping point for me. [SNIP] Is Chalobah being "intentionally" forced out of the club? All we know is that he's not on the USA tour, which could be for myriad reasons, including "there are only so many players we can take and we know enough about you, so don't need to asses you, but we do have to check on the fitness of others and have a proper look at new signings" This stating opinion as fact is one of the many reasons I tend not to read Si Phillips' articles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said: Is Chalobah being "intentionally" forced out of the club? All we know is that he's not on the USA tour, which could be for myriad reasons, including "there are only so many players we can take and we know enough about you, so don't need to asses you, but we do have to check on the fitness of others and have a proper look at new signings" This stating opinion as fact is one of the many reasons I tend not to read Si Phillips' articles. You are right Bob there a myriad of possible reasons why he didn’t go on the pre season tour. However given that Winstanley and Stewart have tried to move him on twice before, logic would lean towards them hoping third time lucky. One thing is for sure the yes man coach has no say in the squad. Edited July 23 by ROTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, thevelourfog said: Do we have any idea about Chalobah's stance on a move? How do we know he's not actively seeking one and welcomes being able to focus on one? You could certainly see why he'd want to go. The idea this is the straw that broke the horse's back for some people is, honestly, hilarious. We don't know enough to know that it's even a thing that Chalobah is being "forced out" against his wishes, and the indifference to the fans or any kind of club values has been bash-you-over-the-head obvious from about 3 days in. This is being made a lot harder than it needs to be. It’s clear as day that the ownership wants to get rid of both Chalobah and Gallagher. Poch openly mocked that by making Gallagher absolute first choice for us while playing Chalobah the second has was back from his injury. It’s equally clear that this was a direct challenge to the ownership who wants both gone. Of course you can always say “oh but we don’t know”. Sure, do we know anything really? What we can do is read the signs, make our own interpretations and see what transpires. By doing that you can’t reach any other conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said: This is being made a lot harder than it needs to be. It’s clear as day that the ownership wants to get rid of both Chalobah and Gallagher. Poch openly mocked that by making Gallagher absolute first choice for us while playing Chalobah the second has was back from his injury. It’s equally clear that this was a direct challenge to the ownership who wants both gone. Of course you can always say “oh but we don’t know”. Sure, do we know anything really? What we can do is read the signs, make our own interpretations and see what transpires. By doing that you can’t reach any other conclusion. In Maresca they have found the ideal manager to say yes to whatever it is they want to do. It's going to get a lot worse from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 7 hours ago, Ham said: Not sure that's what I did but even if I had, no different to your knee-jerk criticism of anything coming out of the club. This forum needs balance. This season will tell whether or not we have built a good squad. There's no balance in making excuses for these amateurs running the club into the ground but fair enough, it's the role you've decided to take on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 10 minutes ago, Bison said: In Maresca they have found the ideal manager to say yes to whatever it is they want to do. It's going to get a lot worse from here. No agenda,,just a genuine question.... on what grounds do you present the above conclusion ? Not picking a fight just really interested to read justification,,,, I really don't know if you are right or wrong and I don't have the in-depth sources of information over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said: Is Chalobah being "intentionally" forced out of the club? All we know is that he's not on the USA tour, which could be for myriad reasons, including "there are only so many players we can take and we know enough about you, so don't need to asses you, but we do have to check on the fitness of others and have a proper look at new signings" This stating opinion as fact is one of the many reasons I tend not to read Si Phillips' articles. There are more pieces coming out from different sources saying that TC believes he’s getting forced out now. And here’s a thing that puzzles me a little, they’ll take Broja on tour) who’ll end up in the Championship, the move after the one from Chelsea) but won’t take Chalobah????? What’s Broja going to do? Metamorphosise into Haaland! Show potential buyers how awful a footballer he is, to diminish his value even more than he’s done already! I’d be doing all I could do to get him fit and stay off the pitch in any game. Edited July 23 by east lower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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