boratsbrother Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Simply put sterling benefits from playing in a structured system. Guardiola had him playing in a highly structured way. So would’ve Tuchel. Poch was much more about giving players the creative freedom to do what they want. Yes, but structured in a way that wouldn't have been able to get the best out of Sterling. We were desperately slow in moving the ball forward under Tuchel resulting in us constantly facing packed penalty areas. We lacked the creativity to open up such defences the way City did week in week out year after year. If anything, I think Sterling would have been less successful under Tuchel. Palmer would have been half the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 5 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: Yes, but structured in a way that wouldn't have been able to get the best out of Sterling. We were desperately slow in moving the ball forward under Tuchel resulting in us constantly facing packed penalty areas. We lacked the creativity to open up such defences the way City did week in week out year after year. If anything, I think Sterling would have been less successful under Tuchel. Palmer would have been half the player. I don’t think we were that slow. We just had a different profile of player. Yes, Sterling would score more goals under Guardiola but goals aren’t everything. Our identity for much of the Abramovich era was being hard to beat not scoring tons of goals. It sometimes feels to me like we’ve bought the Clearlake Kool-Aid that we need to play that way in order to be successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 @Max Fowler,,,with respect,,I understand where you are coming from but the issue isn't about replacing Sterling. I believe The Poch did try to get the best out of Raheem but for whatever reason, whether the coach's fault or the player for some reason (another debated point) the hard truth is he didn't justify his cost. To hang on to a player not producing the goods as wanted because there is no replacement is pointless. Almost like continuing to drive a car with one flat tyre....goes forward but is not worth the damage, (fwiw,,I have done that! As foolish a move as any in my life!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, chara said: @Max Fowler,,,with respect,,I understand where you are coming from but the issue isn't about replacing Sterling. I believe The Poch did try to get the best out of Raheem but for whatever reason, whether the coach's fault or the player for some reason (another debated point) the hard truth is he didn't justify his cost. To hang on to a player not producing the goods as wanted because there is no replacement is pointless. Almost like continuing to drive a car with one flat tyre....goes forward but is not worth the damage, (fwiw,,I have done that! As foolish a move as any in my life!) I am also okay with us selling him but if we sell experience we need to replace him with experience - ideally more than one player. Felix and Sancho are not gonna cut it in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 13 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I am also okay with us selling him but if we sell experience we need to replace him with experience - ideally more than one player. Felix and Sancho are not gonna cut it in this league. Ah,,absolutely right but as ever who?.. I'm hoping with my optomist hat on that Felix and Sancho will succeed..not a direct comparision but I harshly judged Anelka before he arrived,,,,as wrong as I have ever been! Aside,,that fine line between experience and on the downward side of a career,,,over simplified but a very good, experienced pacey winger in his prime or nearly so is unlikely to be available. Had Raheem averaged 8/10 he would still be in the squad,,,I think,,again,only my opinion,,his average was 6/10 at best, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 33 minutes ago, chara said: Had Raheem averaged 8/10 he would still be in the squad,,,I think,,again,only my opinion,,his average was 6/10 at best, Agree. The reason we're discussing him, is exactly the reason that City were happy to sell him to us. Sadly, he's the same frustrating player he always has been, and I can't see him improving. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, chara said: Ah,,absolutely right but as ever who?.. I'm hoping with my optomist hat on that Felix and Sancho will succeed..not a direct comparision but I harshly judged Anelka before he arrived,,,,as wrong as I have ever been! Aside,,that fine line between experience and on the downward side of a career,,,over simplified but a very good, experienced pacey winger in his prime or nearly so is unlikely to be available. Had Raheem averaged 8/10 he would still be in the squad,,,I think,,again,only my opinion,,his average was 6/10 at best, Yep, but Anelka was an amazing player before he arrived. Kicked Ian Wright out of Arsenal. Felix averaged 2/10 for us during his previous stint and Sancho has averaged 1/10 at Man United. They have to be the two worst signings in Clearlake history, even worse than Mudryk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 8 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Felix averaged 2/10 for us during his previous stint and Sancho has averaged 1/10 at Man United. Where'd you get these figures from Max? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Felix has a goal every 199 minutes in the PL. Mostly playing in the worst performing Chelsea team for many years Yes it is a small sample so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 9 hours ago, Michael Tucker said: Where'd you get these figures from Max? That's my opinion, Michael 🙂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 2 hours ago, McCreadie said: Felix has a goal every 199 minutes in the PL. Mostly playing in the worst performing Chelsea team for many years Yes it is a small sample so far. IMO we also need to get away from simple G/A metrics. Many praise Jackson's goalscoring record for example, which he deserves credit for. But his general play is still so naive that it costs us a lot in matches. Offsides, easy ball losses etc. And I like Jackson! IMO Felix is a far worse culprit, you cannot trust him on a cloudy evening in bournemouth, let alone a rainy day in Stoke. And Sancho... don't even get me started 🤐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: IMO we also need to get away from simple G/A metrics. Many praise Jackson's goalscoring record for example, which he deserves credit for. But his general play is still so naive that it costs us a lot in matches. Offsides, easy ball losses etc. And I like Jackson! IMO Felix is a far worse culprit, you cannot trust him on a cloudy evening in bournemouth, let alone a rainy day in Stoke. And Sancho... don't even get me started 🤐 Felix scored in Bournemouth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 8 minutes ago, Ham said: Felix scored in Bournemouth. Well I hope we only trust him with 6 minutes tomorrow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 7 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Well I hope we only trust him with 6 minutes tomorrow too. Yeah. Let's hope we lose and spiral ever downwards until we go through the leagues and go out of business and the ground gets turned into a homeless hostel. That'll learn us. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 31 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Well I hope we only trust him with 6 minutes tomorrow too. I hope he scores again in those 6 minutes. But then, I'm a long-time supporter of the club and hence an eternal optimist (maybe I should change my handle to glass-half-full?). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 11 minutes ago, Blue Moon said: I hope he scores again in those 6 minutes. But then, I'm a long-time supporter of the club and hence an eternal optimist (maybe I should change my handle to glass-half-full?). I'm an eternal optimist too. I am just optimistic we can kick Clearlake and Boehly out sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoblyBobly Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, Max Fowler said: That's my opinion, Michael 🙂 I’m not sure you quite understood Michael’s question Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 41 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I'm an eternal optimist too. I am just optimistic we can kick Clearlake and Boehly out sooner rather than later. Understood, but I always try to get somewhere rather than away from somewhere. Who do you propose, and why - in your opinion - would they be better than TB and CL? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 8 minutes ago, Blue Moon said: Understood, but I always try to get somewhere rather than away from somewhere. Who do you propose, and why - in your opinion - would they be better than TB and CL? Sheikh Jassim or Saudi Media group. If not other oil investors. Benefits of these oil states is they genuinely want their clubs to be the best in the land at all costs, and they have practically unlimited money to make that happen. You can question the morality of that, but that would be my choice. We have an investment firm who is more interested in profit than being the best club in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Money isn't everything, though. I'd rather have an owner who truly loved the sport. Wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boratsbrother Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 2 hours ago, Ham said: Felix scored in Bournemouth. Imho, Felix is second only to Palmer for technical ability. No question there is a real talent lurking inside him, it's just a question of a manager or the player himself finding the key to unlock his potential. Cantona was 26 when he signed for United and it took the great Fergie to transform him from being a flashy talent into a genuinely great Premier League player. Felix is still only 24, so there's still plenty of time for him to reach his great potential. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 13 minutes ago, Blue Moon said: Money isn't everything, though. I'd rather have an owner who truly loved the sport. Wouldn't you? Yeah but our owners don't love the sport, I would even argue Egbhali loves it less than Sheikh Jassim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 Just now, Max Fowler said: Yeah but our owners don't love the sport, I would even argue Egbhali loves it less than Sheikh Jassim. He's routinely been described as a huge Chelsea supporter in the past Max , that was supposedly one of his selling points when he took over from TB 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 (edited) 16 minutes ago, boratsbrother said: Imho, Felix is second only to Palmer for technical ability. No question there is a real talent lurking inside him, it's just a question of a manager or the player himself finding the key to unlock his potential. Cantona was 26 when he signed for United and it took the great Fergie to transform him from being a flashy talent into a genuinely great Premier League player. Felix is still only 24, so there's still plenty of time for him to reach his great potential. (IMHO! Only my opinions and I respect yours) You cannot divorce talent from mental abilities. PL is too tough for that. Felix has the second worst mentality behind Sancho in our squad, and there were plenty of mental lightweights here already. There's a reason Simeone didn't trust Felix and its not because of lack of talent. There's a reason Martinez doesn't play him for Portugal, there's a reason his value has dropped of a cliff. Aka - he goes absolutely missing in games and plays like he is on the beach. He jumps out of tackles and absolutely does not deliver in the biggest moments. IMO we will very quickly see the senselessness of bringing Felix and Sancho here and I will be willing to say I was wrong if that is the case. Edited September 13 by Max Fowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: He's routinely been described as a huge Chelsea supporter in the past Max , that was supposedly one of his selling points when he took over from TB Would love to see the source Mark because I've never heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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