Chelsea 0 Liverpool 0

[kev61]

We still have a few players that should be hung drawn and quartered

[kev61]

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

We still have a few players that should be hung drawn and quartered

I'm joking of course.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, kev61 said:

I'm joking of course.

I don't think Kai Havertz can die by normal means , I think you need a stake a virgin and some garlic.

[kev61]

21 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't think Kai Havertz can die by normal means , I think you need a stake a virgin and some garlic.

The spirit of Ray Reardon  is keeping him going  I think.

[thevelourfog]

Couple of different things for me.

One is I'm genuinely surprised by the good will towards Felix. I think he's a lovely footballer to watch and hugely talented. I also would not be touching a permanent signing of him with a bargepole. He spent all of last night trying to do everything on his own (and I have some sympathy!), every single time he beat a man and opened up space for a defence splitting pass ... He just ran directly into the defence instead. He is absolutely not someone I'd be making part of our "spine". If anything it's a relief that one of the dozens of technically gifted attackers who contribute nothing tangible is definitely off, imo.

And I'm genuinely a little surprised by press coverage of chanting last night. I didn't hear any of the usual horrible chanting, and not just from our supporters. It was the most subdued I have ever heard Liverpool fans at Stamford Bridge to be, too. Actually commented on it during the game, it was like no one had the energy for it. I think it's inevitable that you are going to get some Chelsea fans singing "murderers" and some Liverpool fans singing "rent boys", and the challenge really is to make them a tiny minority, make it so that other people don't passively or unthinkingly join in. Last night was, I think because both sets of fans are done in more than virtue, the closest I have seen this fixture to that. Guess a lot depends on who you can hear from your seat.

[Holymoly]

How the hell Neville gave MotM to Enzo and ignored Kante I have no idea. Best player on the pitch by a mile. Cucurella too had one of his better games, very willing runner although his frantic dashing back with the hair going everywhere gives me the heebie jeebies that he will give away a penalty.

Elephant in the room, Havertz. Actually an elephant would have scored more goals than Havertz. It's now gone beyond poor, sailed past unacceptable and is now in the realms of being a laughing stock. Surely there is someone in the organisation (maybe one of the 7 year olds) that we could draft in for the rest of the season?

Before the match I warned that Bruno would be more of the same and so it proved. I quite liked the 3-5-2 although that only really works if you have strikers that can score goals. But the ethos of Potter remained, same substitution schedule and while I agreed with Gallagher for Kante the other swap should have been done at half time and for Havertz, not Felix.. We need thinking outside the box if we are ever to score again and Havertz needs to be nowhere near the match day squad.

Bruno clearly is intent on freezing out Mount as well which is probably a mistake both short and longer term. The sooner Nagelsmann or Enrique are appointed the better. We need to get Brighton out of our club.

I'm sure there will be more to come today from my fair hand but for the time being rant over.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Holymoly

[Mark Kelly]

I just watched the highlights and boy , the Havertz chance early on when the ball spun up in the air when Felix was tackled ,now , it wasn't the easiest strike of all times but I reckon any forward player on Hackney Marshes on a Sunday could have pulled it off better than the comedic effort that Havertz managed.  He really is a drain on our attacking momentum albeit he does get a load of chances but he really should be first one out the door come summer.

[RDCW]

I guess I'm in a minority of one then! I thought we played pretty well and could easily have won 3 or 4 - 0. I also thought we looked much more cohesive than we had under Potter and I liked the fact that Felix risked failure by being progressive. The spectre at the feast was Havertz, who had a dreadful game. Kova was poor in attack and will need to be replaced if we are to challenge at the top.

The upshot is that Liverpool should be a lot more fearful of the future than we. Our defence is sorted (not fully integrated and co-ordinated yet, but with ample talent), we need a midfielder like Rice and we definitely need a striker (or 2). With a decent new manager we will be a very formidable team.

Edited April 5, 2023 by RDCW

[RDCW]

I would love it if we kept Felix. I think he is an absolute gem and will give us real flair if we can put a real striker up there with him. 

[paulw66]

12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

Kante, Enzo, James, Forfana, Felix can stay, the rest can go including Chilwell who has the brains of a rocking horse. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Just watch him, he has literally no idea what's going on . 

Beats his man crosses blind every time, crosses when nobody is anywhere  near the area. 

Brainless. 

This is just about the most bizarre take I have read on here, about anything.

I, and I think most others, think Chilwell is bloody brilliant. I think he is the second best left back we have had at the club in my lifetime. 

11 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Kante off when he's been the driving force this substitution has Potter all over it. 

I don't understand the beef. Kante was never going to play 90 minutes, having not done so since Everton away back in August.

2 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Sadly, we also have a lot of dross out there, and we've had a coach who didn't know what he was doing. That's why we're where we are.

Is there? The dross we have seen this season were largely not involved last night. I wouldn't call any of the players who were involved yesterday as "dross" at all.

We have a squad of very good players. We are a centre forward and a good manager away from being very good.

36 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

One is I'm genuinely surprised by the good will towards Felix. 

Another game where he doesn't deliver a goal or assist but he "looks good"........

The goodwill comes from the fact he is a newbie. One or two others (particularly one) getting a load of stick on this match day thread for not scoring, yet Felix draws another blank and you get..............

2 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I would love it if we kept Felix. I think he is an absolute gem and will give us real flair if we can put a real striker up there with him. 

 

One rule for one............

[paulw66]

13 minutes ago, RDCW said:

The upshot is that Liverpool should be a lot more fearful of the future than we. Our defence is sorted (not fully integrated and co-ordinated yet, but with ample talent), we need a midfielder like Rice and we definitely need a striker (or 2). With a decent new manager we will be a very formidable team.

Yes. 

The crux of the team/squad is clearly there with a competent coach. 

[paulw66]

41 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

. I quite liked the 3-5-2 although that only really works if you have strikers that can score goals.

You also need one of the midfield 3 to be an attacking / goalscoring midfielder.

Enzo, Kante, Kovacic.......none of them are goalscorers. When the team was announced, I said at dinner, who, out of the starting XI, is likely to score a goal in open play? You're basically limiting it to 2 forwards, neither of whom score that many.

If you think back to when Jose played a 433, the midfield 3 would be Makelele / Mikel, then Essien / Tiago then Lampard. If you had 2 of Kante, Enzo and Kova plus a Lampard type (Mount?) then it would be more effective. 

[RDCW]

4 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 

This is just about the most bizarre take I have read on here, about anything.

I, and I think most others, think Chilwell is bloody brilliant. I think he is the second best left back we have had at the club in my lifetime. 

I don't understand the beef. Kante was never going to play 90 minutes, having not done so since Everton away back in August.

Is there? The dross we have seen this season were largely not involved last night. I wouldn't call any of the players who were involved yesterday as "dross" at all.

We have a squad of very good players. We are a centre forward and a good manager away from being very good.

Another game where he doesn't deliver a goal or assist but he "looks good"........

The goodwill comes from the fact he is a newbie. One or two others (particularly one) getting a load of stick on this match day thread for not scoring, yet Felix draws another blank and you get..............

 

One rule for one............

No rules, just an opinion based on observation! Havertz has had plenty of slack in his time here, but has not delivered enough; Felix has come to the club when confidence is generally low, but is trying to push through it. If he doesn't deliver more positive outcomes in the next 10 games then he will be questioned too!

[paulw66]

2 minutes ago, RDCW said:

No rules, just an opinion based on observation! Havertz has had plenty of slack in his time here, but has not delivered enough; Felix has come to the club when confidence is generally low, but is trying to push through it. If he doesn't deliver more positive outcomes in the next 10 games then he will be questioned too!

I get Havertz has had plenty more opportunity, I just don't quite get the Felix love. He continues to not score, or assist, but gets a complete free pass. 

Edit, and my comment wasn't aimed at you specifically, your post just happened to be most recent. There were plenty of others I could have referenced

Edited April 5, 2023 by paulw66

[paulw66]

Felix now averaging a PL goal every 348 minutes.

Havertz is one in 309 (this season)

One of them "has to be first out the door" and the other is one we must sign permanently. 

[thevelourfog]

3 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Felix now averaging a PL goal every 348 minutes.

Havertz is one in 309 (this season)

One of them "has to be first out the door" and the other is one we must sign permanently. 

I'm glad it's not just me seeing it. For the money he would cost us, he is just not worth it. I can watch showy highlights reels at home to be entertained, I want to see some actual end product when I'm at the game. We would be crazy to have been able to see him up close and still go for it.

[Thiago97]

59 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Couple of different things for me.

One is I'm genuinely surprised by the good will towards Felix. I think he's a lovely footballer to watch and hugely talented. I also would not be touching a permanent signing of him with a bargepole. He spent all of last night trying to do everything on his own (and I have some sympathy!), every single time he beat a man and opened up space for a defence splitting pass ... He just ran directly into the defence instead. He is absolutely not someone I'd be making part of our "spine". If anything it's a relief that one of the dozens of technically gifted attackers who contribute nothing tangible is definitely off, imo.

And I'm genuinely a little surprised by press coverage of chanting last night. I didn't hear any of the usual horrible chanting, and not just from our supporters. It was the most subdued I have ever heard Liverpool fans at Stamford Bridge to be, too. Actually commented on it during the game, it was like no one had the energy for it. I think it's inevitable that you are going to get some Chelsea fans singing "murderers" and some Liverpool fans singing "rent boys", and the challenge really is to make them a tiny minority, make it so that other people don't passively or unthinkingly join in. Last night was, I think because both sets of fans are done in more than virtue, the closest I have seen this fixture to that. Guess a lot depends on who you can hear from your seat.

Tend to agree on Felix. Brilliant footballer for sure, but for what he will cost in the summer, I really hope we have no plans to make this a permanent signing.

I can’t be critical of him though. He looks like he is here to just try and enjoy some football for a few months. He is playing like he is the best kid in playground a little, which I can’t say I have too many issues with, given the current scenario we are in and he has no loyalty to Chelsea in any way.

[paulw66]

12 hours ago, Bison said:

Kovacic lol. Cannot believe people think this guy is good.

His fans will also tell you with a straight face that Kante is the one that needs to be moved on this summer. 

He has managed to contribute 277 minutes so far this season. Completed 90 minutes once. In August. 

I think most people accept that Kante is a wonderful player, but his use to us from the end of August to the end of March was..............  Let's see how his fitness goes, because if he breaks down again before the end of the season, there should be no new contract IMO 

[Mark Kelly]

12 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 

 

I, and I think most others, think Chilwell is bloody brilliant. I think he is the second best left back we have had at the club in my lifetime. 

I don't understand the beef. Kante was never going to play 90 minutes, having not done so since Everton away back in August.

 

Chilwell is a great player but he is absolutely brainless , in the last game he kept beating his man , crossing into an area where nobody was and ceding possession because of it , never looks up , never changes his approach regardless of the outcome , great athlete , excellent footballer , no brains 

The moment Kante went off , Liverpool started to look more threatening , Kante had loads left in the tank , every game , Potter brings on Gallaher at about 65 minutes regardless , that was what also happened under Bruno last night , hence the comment 

[paulw66]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Chilwell is a great player but he is absolutely brainless , in the last game he kept beating his man , crossing into an area where nobody was and ceding possession because of it , never looks up , never changes his approach regardless of the outcome , great athlete , excellent footballer , no brains 

 

Ok, agree to disagree. It would help if there was a CF to cross to, mind.

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

The moment Kante went off , Liverpool started to look more threatening , Kante had loads left in the tank , every game , Potter brings on Gallaher at about 65 minutes regardless , that was what also happened under Bruno last night , hence the comment 

But do you not think it was the right thing to do (taking Kante off)?

You think risking another injury at this stage of his recovery is sensible, when we have nothing to play for?

Kante was always coming off 2/3 of the wat through the game, irrespective of who the coach was.

[xceleryx]

13 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

You also need one of the midfield 3 to be an attacking / goalscoring midfielder.

Enzo, Kante, Kovacic.......none of them are goalscorers. When the team was announced, I said at dinner, who, out of the starting XI, is likely to score a goal in open play? You're basically limiting it to 2 forwards, neither of whom score that many.

If you think back to when Jose played a 433, the midfield 3 would be Makelele / Mikel, then Essien / Tiago then Lampard. If you had 2 of Kante, Enzo and Kova plus a Lampard type (Mount?) then it would be more effective. 

Completely agree.

Have addressed this myself a couple times in recent weeks but the midfield three has potential but not with the combinations on hand currently. We completely negate Enzo's best qualities by playing him deeper, and then there's little potency or guile from Kante or Kovacic who are the ones that'll occupy higher positions up the park. Mount could be that attacking #8 type, but ideally that see's Enzo move into CM properly so he can also get forward at times, and an actual holding mid in behind. 

Would love our starting midfield to look like this next season - DM, Enzo, and someone like SMS as the #8 and link to the attack. 

[Thiago97]

33 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I guess I'm in a minority of one then! I thought we played pretty well and could easily have won 3 or 4 - 0. I also thought we looked much more cohesive than we had under Potter and I liked the fact that Felix risked failure by being progressive. The spectre at the feast was Havertz, who had a dreadful game. Kova was poor in attack and will need to be replaced if we are to challenge at the top.

The upshot is that Liverpool should be a lot more fearful of the future than we. Our defence is sorted (not fully integrated and co-ordinated yet, but with ample talent), we need a midfielder like Rice and we definitely need a striker (or 2). With a decent new manager we will be a very formidable team.

I thought it was much the same, but made to look slightly better by having Kante in there.

For all we look a threat at times, I just think that is down to having talented players who are playing a little off the cuff in forward areas.

This is why I say having a Number 9 this season would make a negligible difference in my opinion. We’d score a few more having someone to finish some chances, but the threat we are carrying is not down to well coached attacking patterns of play as a team. It’s just individuals with talent creating a moment in most cases. 
 

Agree on Liverpool. Couldn’t believe how bad they looked. I wonder if Kloop is starting to have that lingering smell of a fish who has hung around too long! (Can’t remember if that was the exact quote from Trappatoni when talking managers)

[chrisb]

I think Felix is getting an easier ride because he actually appears to be trying where as Havertz looks disinterested and lazy. I’m not one for statistics I judge my opinions on what I see on the pitch. Felix is like an over exuberant spaniel against Havertz who looks like an old tired Labrador.

[paulw66]

1 minute ago, chrisb said:

I think Felix is getting an easier ride because he actually appears to be trying where as Havertz looks disinterested and lazy. I’m not one for statistics I judge my opinions on what I see on the pitch. Felix is like an over exuberant spaniel against Havertz who looks like an old tired Labrador.

Keep seeing this word in Felix conversations.

Havertz is just one of those players who has a languid running style, and appears lazy. I don't think there is actually any issue with his work rate at all. Perception.

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Felix now averaging a PL goal every 348 minutes.

Havertz is one in 309 (this season)

One of them "has to be first out the door" and the other is one we must sign permanently. 

I think for a fair comparison Felix has to have played the same amount of games as Havertz and It can't even be close given he got sent off in his first game and Havertz plays every week.

The difference I think is Felix , whilst flattering to deceive actually looks like he has some technical ability and idea what's going on .

Havertz is just a strange  player , he runs around a lot , gets involved in a lot of goal scoring opportunities which has to be lauded I suppose but manages to mess them up time and again   , maybe it's a confidence thing but I certainly wouldn't be persevering with him now , he's had long enough and remains an enigma.